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Post by astock5000 on Feb 3, 2010 14:25:47 GMT
I saw 378151 in platform 1 at Watford Junction today (at about 13:50). Does anyone know why this unit was delivered to Willesden, and if it was at Watford for testing or was just stabled there for some reason?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 15:14:03 GMT
I saw 378151 in platform 1 at Watford Junction today (at about 13:50). Does anyone know why this unit was delivered to Willesden, and if it was at Watford for testing or was just stabled there for some reason? The plan is to have a de-icer for the DC lines after the poor start on some days recently. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 3, 2010 20:35:03 GMT
are the issues with the OPO operation of the 378s on the DC line sorted yet?
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Post by patstonuk on Feb 3, 2010 21:35:22 GMT
378135 on its way from Derby to Ashford this evening - reported on a couple of Yahoo groups by jka.
That's the original order for the ELL complete.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 22:11:24 GMT
are the issues with the OPO operation of the 378s on the DC line sorted yet? For OPO read DOO, they already operate empty under DOO(NP) so the de-icer can run empty and any passenger operation will wait until any alterations to DOO fixed equipment. Not much point setting up for 3 car operation only to then alter again for 4 car operation so easier to wait until the 4 car trains arrive for the NLL and DC. Though watch out for the new equipment now they have a 4 car to set up and test for! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 22:25:01 GMT
Are there any pictures of 378s at New Cross, New Cross Gate or the depot there yet? I've drawn a blank googling for them.
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Post by astock5000 on Feb 3, 2010 23:21:45 GMT
The plan is to have a de-icer for the DC lines after the poor start on some days recently. What is the reason a 378/0 can't be used? 378135 on its way from Derby to Ashford this evening - reported on a couple of Yahoo groups by jka. That's the original order for the ELL complete. I thought the original ELL order was 20 units - has 154 been delivered, because I don't remember reading anything about it? Also, have any units been moved from Ashford to New Cross Gate since 145 and 146? |
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Post by andypurk on Feb 4, 2010 1:07:25 GMT
are the issues with the OPO operation of the 378s on the DC line sorted yet? For OPO read DOO, they already operate empty under DOO(NP) so the de-icer can run empty and any passenger operation will wait until any alterations to DOO fixed equipment. Not much point setting up for 3 car operation only to then alter again for 4 car operation so easier to wait until the 4 car trains arrive for the NLL and DC. Though watch out for the new equipment now they have a 4 car to set up and test for! I was under the impression, from this forum and other places on the web, that there is no fixed equipment specifically needed for DOO with the class 378s as everything is on the trains. Cameras on the side of each carriage give views on a TV screen in the cab. The delays are due to the lighting on the platforms not being sufficient for running DOO in the hours of darkness. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2010 8:33:11 GMT
The plan is to have a de-icer for the DC lines after the poor start on some days recently. What is the reason a 378/0 can't be used? 378135 on its way from Derby to Ashford this evening - reported on a couple of Yahoo groups by jka. That's the original order for the ELL complete. I thought the original ELL order was 20 units - has 154 been delivered, because I don't remember reading anything about it? Also, have any units been moved from Ashford to New Cross Gate since 145 and 146? Yes, 150 has been delivered. Also picked up unit 152 at New Cross Gate platform 5 and drove it into the depot (over the flyover for the first time!) on Monday night, and then picked up unit 153 yesterday evening! So not many more units are left outstanding, the depot is filling up fast! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2010 1:30:02 GMT
I thought the original ELL order was 20 units - has 154 been delivered, because I don't remember reading anything about it? Also, have any units been moved from Ashford to New Cross Gate since 145 and 146? I have 154 down as leaving Derby on Jan 27th |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2010 8:48:08 GMT
I was under the impression, from this forum and other places on the web, that there is no fixed equipment specifically needed for DOO with the class 378s as everything is on the trains. Cameras on the side of each carriage give views on a TV screen in the cab. The delays are due to the lighting on the platforms not being sufficient for running DOO in the hours of darkness. As far as I am aware the problem is that the DOO camera positioning/design was based on the train having plug doors as typically seen on an electrostar family EMU however due to having recessed sliding doors they are not visible to the cameras. When working on the NLL from viewing the DOO cameras I definately wouldnt have been able to judge if the doors were clear or not There has been talk about having dispatch staff on the ELL to give a dispatch bat visible on the DOO cameras for doors close and for station duties completed. There are also concerns on the DC with station lighting |
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Post by patstonuk on Feb 5, 2010 9:36:48 GMT
The plan is to have a de-icer for the DC lines after the poor start on some days recently. What is the reason a 378/0 can't be used? 378135 on its way from Derby to Ashford this evening - reported on a couple of Yahoo groups by jka. That's the original order for the ELL complete. I thought the original ELL order was 20 units - has 154 been delivered, because I don't remember reading anything about it? Also, have any units been moved from Ashford to New Cross Gate since 145 and 146? This list is compiled from information appearing on this forum and various Yahoo groups - thanks to all sources involved. It should be accurate but moves from AF to NXG are particularly difficult to pin down. It is assumed that 378141 has made it, eventually, to NXG. Also note that the Ashford dates quoted are a day later than often seen, as arrival at AF from Derby is in the small hours of the day after leaving Derby. Also note that it has not been possible to give exact dates into traffic for the majority of the NLL units. Any corrections gratefully noted! 3car units 378001 back at LL, 17/11 378002 378003 delivered 21/1/10 378004 back at LL, 2/12 378005 in traffic from 29-7-09 378006 in traffic 378007 in traffic from 30-7-09 378008 in traffic by 15-9-09 378009 in traffic 378010 in traffic from 2-10-09 378011 in traffic by 2-12-09 378012 in traffic 378013 in traffic from 13-8-09 378014 in traffic from 2-10-09 378015 in traffic from 6-8-09 378016 in traffic from 7-8-09 378017 in traffic by 17-9-09 378018 in traffic by 20-9-09 378019 delivered WN 28/1 . 4car units 378135 to AF 4/2 378136 NXG 378137 NXG 378138 NXG 378139 NXG 378140 NXG 378141 NXG 378142 NXG 378143 NXG 378144 NXG 378145 NXG 378146 NXG 378147 NXG 378148 NXG 378149 NXG 378150 NXG 378151 WN 22/1 graffitied on one vehicle 378152 NXG 378153 NXG 378154 delivered AF 28/1 |
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Post by patstonuk on Feb 12, 2010 15:18:23 GMT
A quick update to the above - WN now has all bar 378001/002/004/022-024 delivered. 003/019/020 have been on daylight testing this week and 021 arrived from Derby last night.
On the ELL, only 135 has yet to reach NXG and this is scheduled for later today. 151 has, however, gone to Watford Jn on deicing duties on the DC Lines (at least, north of Harrow & W).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2010 16:12:33 GMT
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Post by flippyff on Feb 12, 2010 20:39:24 GMT
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Post by flippyff on Feb 14, 2010 19:50:54 GMT
Sorry, don't know why I typed 'fourth rails', I meant third rails....
Simon
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Post by patstonuk on Feb 18, 2010 21:06:23 GMT
378022 on its way from Derby this evening. Reported elsewhere that 378020/021 are at Ashford for dc testing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2010 23:19:40 GMT
I saw a 378 loitering outside Queen's Park on the DC lines earlier this evening - hopefully with these latest 378/0 deliveries (and closure to the NLL) it won't be too much longer before they'll start appearing in service on the DC lines between Watford & Euston.
After all, if they're going to be in DOO / OPO passenger service on the ELL in a matter of weeks, then why not on the DC? (excluding any platform lighting issues, which could easily be resolved).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2010 3:05:32 GMT
I wonder why station staff on the ELL are being trained to do dispatch duties yet the train is being operated in DOO mode.
Surely DOO means exactly that and nothing else. Otherwise it isn't DOO is it?
I wonder whether its because the trains cant be trusted to operate in complete DOO ie the cameras on the train being very poor is the real reason why they have not been introduced onto the dc yet?
Me being cynical......................... Now why would you think that?
Perhaps my learned friends 200 yds ahead of me can explain
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Post by 100andthirty on Feb 19, 2010 6:04:55 GMT
I'm speculating, but the DOO equipment can become defective or platform conditions could be such as to need assisted dispatch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2010 16:05:56 GMT
I wonder why station staff on the ELL are being trained to do dispatch duties yet the train is being operated in DOO mode. Surely DOO means exactly that and nothing else. Otherwise it isn't DOO is it? I wonder whether its because the trains cant be trusted to operate in complete DOO ie the cameras on the train being very poor is the real reason why they have not been introduced onto the dc yet? Me being cynical......................... Now why would you think that? Perhaps my learned friends 200 yds ahead of me can explain Reasons: - The doors are not flush with the bodyside (they are recessed), any entrapment by a passenger cannot be picked up by the cameras - Some stations on the ELL are on a curvature, again the whole train cannot be seen on the cameras, even when stopped correctly at the stop boards - According to a Bombardier tech I was talking with, the actual camera lenses are too small to get a good view on the monitor My concern is that there are no 'OFF' indicators on the platforms and the starting signals at the end of the platforms are obscured by the train when at a stand. So how will the station staff know when to dispatch? Why it has been left until 3 months before opening I do not know considering LOROL/TfL knew about this situation from the problems arising with the 378's running on the DC lines. It would make more sense to put mirrors at the end of the platforms or have monitors on the platforms themselves like they do on the underground. |
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Post by metman on Feb 19, 2010 16:52:33 GMT
I would think the commuters on the DC lines will be glad to have the 313s for as long as possible. They have lots of proper seats at least.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2010 17:01:50 GMT
378022 on its way from Derby this evening. Reported elsewhere that 378020/021 are at Ashford for dc testing. '021 certainly was on Wednesday 17th. Spotted it in platform 2 towards 15.30. |
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Post by andypurk on Feb 19, 2010 19:12:04 GMT
Reasons: - The doors are not flush with the bodyside (they are recessed), any entrapment by a passenger cannot be picked up by the cameras This one is probably true and seems to be the main problem with the 378s. There's not been many reported problems with the 377s in DOO mode, but these have flush doors. This one isn't correct, as there are cameras on each coach and as the coach is straight any platform curvature won't change what is visible, of the coach side, on the screen in the cab. But platform end mirrors still won't solve any problems with platform curvature. |
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Post by carlovel1 on Feb 19, 2010 20:52:02 GMT
I saw a 4car class 378 at New Cross today!!!
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 19, 2010 21:10:31 GMT
OPO monitors like LU use might indeed help matters. Up to 4 cameras could be used to show to length of the train in the monitors.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 11:21:36 GMT
I assume that 378 driver is not passed to drive 378s. The cameras are fitted to the trains and the monitors are in the cabs. Everyone who is passed to drive 378s knows how good the monitors are as they are in the cab without having to ask a Bombardier technician.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 16:06:06 GMT
I assume that 378 driver is not passed to drive 378s. The cameras are fitted to the trains and the monitors are in the cabs. Everyone who is passed to drive 378s knows how good the monitors are as they are in the cab without having to ask a Bombardier technician. First of all I can assure you that I am fully qualified to drive 378's and have been driving them since August on the NLL and on the ELL since the start of testing in October last year. Several tests were made in regards to the view on the monitors which involved stopping the train at different intervals on the platforms and the results have been inadequate (according to TfL), hence why station staff are now being trained to dispatch. |
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Post by dazz285 on Feb 20, 2010 18:06:14 GMT
Everyone who is passed to drive 378s knows how good the monitors are as they are in the cab without having to ask a Bombardier technician. I wouldn't say that they are good... just adequate if and when they are working correctly....  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 10:54:36 GMT
Dazz, I did not say they were good, just that we know how good they actually are without having to ask a Bombardier technician as 378driver seems to have done. If what the Bombardier technician has told him is correct about the camera lenses, I assume that 378driver has brought it to the attention of his H&S rep.
He also seems to think that these cameras are affected by platform curvature which does surprise me because the whole carriage does not bend to affect the camera fitted to the side of the coach! Finally he thinks that we should have mirrors or monitors on the platforms like on the underground (sic). I assume he has never travelled on the Northern Line?
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