|
|
Post by dazz285 on May 11, 2009 18:39:30 GMT
No guards/conductors being displaced... Nll & Wll staying Guard/conductor operated
|
|
|
|
Post by upfast on May 11, 2009 18:59:23 GMT
No guards/conductors being displaced... Nll & Wll staying Guard/conductor operated What about the other lines? Has an agreement been reached for this to continue or is it only for a while? Guards AND station staff on trains - whatever next! |
|
|
|
Post by astock5000 on May 11, 2009 19:22:10 GMT
Nll & Wll staying Guard/conductor operated What about the DC (Watford - Euston) line? |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,763
|
Post by Chris M on May 11, 2009 19:28:57 GMT
I believe the Watford DC line is currently DOO, and I doubt this will change with the new stock.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2009 20:17:25 GMT
I spoke to an instructor this morning who told me he saw 378007 arrive last Thursday.. Indeed it is 007 if this photo is anything to go by (from Locoscene). |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2009 21:55:33 GMT
What does DOO stand for?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2009 22:02:22 GMT
What does DOO stand for? i would of guess its something like Driver Only operated or Driver only operation ? ? but im not sure. |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,763
|
Post by Chris M on May 11, 2009 22:15:23 GMT
DOO = Driver Only Operation (I believe), it is Network Rail's (and presumably predecessors') term for what LU calls OPO (One Person Operation) and previously called OMO (One Man Operation).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2009 22:28:47 GMT
DOO = Driver Only Operation (I believe), it is Network Rail's (and presumably predecessors') term for what LU calls OPO (One Person Operation) and previously called OMO (One Man Operation). AHH thanks Chris! |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on May 11, 2009 23:06:53 GMT
How can TFL justify DOO on LO for the class 378s when S Stock will be OPO?
|
|
|
|
Post by miztert on May 12, 2009 11:14:53 GMT
I'm surprised guards are being retained on the NLL and WLL - I'd been expecting the whole LO operation to go DOO.
If guards are being retained, I'm guessing they'll be expected to circulate through the train (poss. checking tickets?) and not just stay in the rear cab - the new trains will presumably make this possible (this is the case on other guard operated Electrostar trains, where the guard can close the doors from any set of doors).
|
|
|
|
Post by happybunny on May 12, 2009 12:47:51 GMT
Its crazy they are keeping guards with OPO trains in operation ! Probably just because the RMT kicked up a fuss (they don't like change). I could understand if any jobs were at risk, but the displaced guards would be made into drivers (with pay rise) like what happened when LU trains went OPO. Are there any LO guards on the forum? If so what are your views on this?
Also most LO stations seem to be gated now so less need for on-board ticket checks. (Not that I have ever been checked on a LO train (by guard or other)- pre or post Silverlink days!)
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,763
|
Post by Chris M on May 12, 2009 17:04:17 GMT
On off-peak LO trains (when people can physically move through the cars) I have been checked a few times.
Certainly on the Goblin, most stations are not gated - although with the number of people (LO station staff, RPIs with Police/PCSOs there too) checking Oyster cards at Leytonstone High Road the other day it might as well have been.
|
|
|
|
Post by astock5000 on May 12, 2009 19:00:11 GMT
I believe the Watford DC line is currently DOO, and I doubt this will change with the new stock. If the DC line is DOO, then couldn't the 378s run on that service at first, until enough conductors are trained (or maybe there will be enough conductors avalible by the time they enter service - I don't know how long it takes to train one)? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2009 19:17:08 GMT
Its crazy they are keeping guards with OPO trains in operation ! Probably just because the RMT kicked up a fuss (they don't like change). I could understand if any jobs were at risk, but the displaced guards would be made into drivers (with pay rise) like what happened when LU trains went OPO. Are there any LO guards on the forum? If so what are your views on this? Also most LO stations seem to be gated now so less need for on-board ticket checks. (Not that I have ever been checked on a LO train (by guard or other)- pre or post Silverlink days!) Glad you asked the question about Guards on the LO my good friend, as i am one. Firstly where do i start, yes the RMT would kick up a fuss if Guards were to be removed and rightly so, just because DOO is in everywhere else, doesnt mean that its ok. Change is all well and good, but perhaps if change meant that you lose your job i dont think even you would agree with your own statement. With regard to going from Guard to Driver it is not as simple as it was on LU, for a start wasnt a Guard on LU trained to move a train if needed in a emergency? If i went from Guard to Driver i would have to 1, Apply for the position, 2, Have an Assessment. 3, Have a Medical, 4, Have a interview, 5, If you have passed the previous 3 you then start a 6 to 9 month course at a lower salary with no overtime. Then if your lucky to pass the examinations you can became a driver. If your not your out on your ear. There is no absolute right to become a Driver simply because the grade im in is removed, if they removed Guards from the NLL i will be on the dole. Simple as that. There is one reason why you will never see Guards doing ticket checks and that is 'PENALTY FARES' you cannot have Guards collecting and issuing ordinary fares in a Penalty Fares area. If you have never had your tickets checked then you have never travelled on the Gospel to Barking line who up until January 2009 Guards use to do it, like wise on the Willesden to Clapham. On the NLL proper you had Revenue Protection Teams. Yes not every train can be done, but if you spoke to those members of the public who have been issued a PF , they will tell you a different story. That is both pre and post Silverlink days. Hope this is of help |
|
|
|
Post by dazz285 on May 12, 2009 20:22:26 GMT
I believe the Watford DC line is currently DOO, and I doubt this will change with the new stock. If the DC line is DOO, then couldn't the 378s run on that service at first, until enough conductors are trained (or maybe there will be enough conductors avalible by the time they enter service - I don't know how long it takes to train one)? The last I heard was that the doo equipment was causing a few problems. The plan was to run 378's on the DC as if there were any problems then the fallout would be kept to a minimum. But as the doo equipment has a few teething problems they have decided to run them on the NLL & the WLL first..I would love to sit here and explain the plan but to be honest I really feel like there isn't one, unless someone would like to put me right... |
|
|
|
Post by happybunny on May 12, 2009 20:35:07 GMT
Thanks Keith for explaining. I didn't realise that the guards would be sacked, I was wrong it seems, in assuming you would be given driving jobs.
As for issuing tickets in PF areas, I often see the guards on SWT services checking / issuing tickets on there services, which are in PF areas.. maybe there policy is different .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 1:41:12 GMT
Many stations on SWT routes have no ticket gates, that's probably why you can buy on board.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 14:23:47 GMT
On a walk around the Willesden TMD new units 005 and 'James Bond' 007 were in attendance.
|
|
|
|
Post by dazz285 on May 13, 2009 14:34:32 GMT
Did you get any photo's ;-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 17:11:06 GMT
Did you get any photo's ;-) Nah Dazz, wont need to be loads of pics when they enter service and if they keep Guards on i will be on them for at least 20 years. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2009 21:29:40 GMT
I'm sorry but I don't think that 'keeping people in jobs' is sufficient reason for retaining guards. LO will come under pressure to cut costs just like the rest of the world, and if a job is clearly unneeded then it must go. This is always harsh for those in the firing line, but it would be unfair to those losing their jobs elsewhere to retain superfluous guards.
Wrt re-deployment I would have thought there were opportunities in RPI teams and station staffing as well as train driving. I suggest Keith that you look at those options soon, as your job may get a reprise or two but the days will inevitably be numbered. Get out early if you can.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2009 11:05:50 GMT
The class 378 launch event is on Monday, so do not forget to watch the local news.
|
|
|
|
Post by dazz285 on May 16, 2009 12:47:09 GMT
Shame that 005 or 007 can't enter service... Seems like they'll have a launch in the bay at at Willesden Jct and then pop it back in the Tmd...
|
|
|
|
Post by dazz285 on May 16, 2009 14:46:13 GMT
The class 378 launch event is on Monday, so do not forget to watch the local news. Chris, Any idea what time? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2009 16:25:37 GMT
In the morning. Some time between 0945 and 1145
|
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on May 16, 2009 16:50:49 GMT
Be nice to know what time the 378 will be arriving and leaving as it seems to be the only chance to photograph one in daylight for many months (years?), and if the original 'LO' launch is anything to go by, the bay road will be securely roped off to ensure the 'great and good' enjoy their festivities and goody bags unmolested by the local populace.
As an aside, and I don't want anyone to lose their job, but I can't believe TFL can justify crew-operation on a 4-car surface stock, yet 7-car deep level Tube trains with 4 times the number of passengers can be operated by one person and not even with ATO?
Any chance of DB taking over LUL then?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2009 18:30:03 GMT
I'm sorry but I don't think that 'keeping people in jobs' is sufficient reason for retaining guards. LO will come under pressure to cut costs just like the rest of the world, and if a job is clearly unneeded then it must go. This is always harsh for those in the firing line, but it would be unfair to those losing their jobs elsewhere to retain superfluous guards. Wrt re-deployment I would have thought there were opportunities in RPI teams and station staffing as well as train driving. I suggest Keith that you look at those options soon, as your job may get a reprise or two but the days will inevitably be numbered. Get out early if you can. Dear Paul, I wont go into political point scoring on whether trains should still have Guards or not. I as a Guard have been under the threat of DOO since it was started in 1984, and have already been made surplus to requirements once in 1993. Re-Deployment. 1. RPI. London Overground have just reduced the number from 34 to 19, so the answer to that is NO! 2. Station Staff. London Overground have a full quota of Station Staff as virtually all the vacancies were filed from the surplus RPIs, so the answer to that one is NO! 3. Driver. People are only allowed to take the test twice, as i have and failed twice that rules me and for those others who have done the same out, so the answer to that one is NO! The one option that i would take is if the company made me redundant, not surplus to requirements, redundant. I am glad that you think i am superfluous.... Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by dazz285 on May 16, 2009 19:54:00 GMT
routemasterkeith you would never be surplus to requirements for me ;-) Who else would I get to get the coffee in at Richmond ;-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2009 10:58:07 GMT
Be nice to know what time the 378 will be arriving and leaving as it seems to be the only chance to photograph one in daylight for many months (years?) 09.42 and 11.47. But it might run early or late. I think you will see 378 training for traincrew start in earnest in the next few weeks. You will have plenty of chance to phot them then |
|
