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Post by andypurk on Oct 24, 2009 19:58:04 GMT
There are six trains needed to run the DC service and this is the same pretty much all day, Monday - Saturday, whilst the 20 minute frequency operates (between 6.00 and 20.00). The service reduces to every 30 mins during the evenings (after the 20.01 from Watford Junction) and on Sundays, with four trains needed in service. With the arrival of London Overground the service reverted to 20 mins all day on Monday to Saturday about 12 months ago. My apologies, I seem have loaded an old pdf when I was checking, not the current one. It doesn't change the fact that 6 trains are required to run the service Mon - Sat with 4 on Sundays. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2009 12:53:47 GMT
There are only two trains needed to run the WLL, yet one of them is ALWAYS a 313 (to my knowledge - correct me if I'm wrong). I have not, to date, seen a situation whereby two 378s are working the WLL. Is this a deliberate policy for some reason? Do they insist that one WLL train must be a 313? And, if so, will this be the case right up to the last 313 left on the LO network? One of the reasons this may be is due to the fact that the majority of drivers diagrammed to drive the WLL are infact drivers who will be based at New Cross Gate for the ELL. At the moment, not all these drivers sign 378's so a 313 has to be used instead. Once the majority of these drivers sign 378's i'm sure the WLL will always have a full compliment of 378's. Thanks for the info. I do hope they sort it out soon, at any rate - whatever the reasons for it are. I'm frankly getting a bit tired, now, of still seeing 313s thudding and grinding their way along the WLL when there should easily now be enough 378s to give 100% coverage on this short line. |
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Post by patstonuk on Oct 25, 2009 13:36:57 GMT
One of the reasons this may be is due to the fact that the majority of drivers diagrammed to drive the WLL are infact drivers who will be based at New Cross Gate for the ELL. At the moment, not all these drivers sign 378's so a 313 has to be used instead. Once the majority of these drivers sign 378's i'm sure the WLL will always have a full compliment of 378's. Thanks for the info. I do hope they sort it out soon, at any rate - whatever the reasons for it are. I'm frankly getting a bit tired, now, of still seeing 313s thudding and grinding their way along the WLL when there should easily now be enough 378s to give 100% coverage on this short line. I also wonder whether Bombardier's earlier supply chain 'chickens' are coming home to roost. If the original production schedule for the 378s had been maintained, I suspect just about all the 313s would have been replaced by now (ignoring the DC Lines DOO issue). Production would then have continued with the ELL batch, producing sufficient sets for training before next year's start - and most importantly, sufficient sets to run the ELL service. The priority now must be providing sufficient sets for the start of ELL services - so is the apparent drying-up of new sets for the WLL/NLL services simply prioritisation to avoid the potential for large amounts of 'egg on face'? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2009 19:20:08 GMT
I do not know where you get the idea of 2 trains for the WLL when nowadays there are a lot of through trains to and from Stratford.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 18:56:18 GMT
Was doing testing on ELL today and was informed another 378 is due to be delivered to New Cross Gate depot tonight. Don't know what unit no though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2009 21:17:56 GMT
Isn't it two trains for Clapham - Willesden when it is a self-contained shuttle in the off-peaks?
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Post by patstonuk on Oct 26, 2009 21:31:04 GMT
Thanks for the info. I do hope they sort it out soon, at any rate - whatever the reasons for it are. I'm frankly getting a bit tired, now, of still seeing 313s thudding and grinding their way along the WLL when there should easily now be enough 378s to give 100% coverage on this short line. I also wonder whether Bombardier's earlier supply chain 'chickens' are coming home to roost. If the original production schedule for the 378s had been maintained, I suspect just about all the 313s would have been replaced by now (ignoring the DC Lines DOO issue). Production would then have continued with the ELL batch, producing sufficient sets for training before next year's start - and most importantly, sufficient sets to run the ELL service. The priority now must be providing sufficient sets for the start of ELL services - so is the apparent drying-up of new sets for the WLL/NLL services simply prioritisation to avoid the potential for large amounts of 'egg on face'? No sooner said than I hear another 378 should be delivered to Willesden tomorrow from Derby! |
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Post by superteacher on Oct 26, 2009 23:32:22 GMT
Isn't it two trains for Clapham - Willesden when it is a self-contained shuttle in the off-peaks? Yes, this is true. Certain diagrams are scheduled for 313's, and some for 378's. It just so happens that one of the off peak diagrams scheduled to work the WLL is still a 313. |
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Post by mcmaddog on Oct 27, 2009 9:13:11 GMT
378004 was running out by New Cross Gate station this morning (0840) - the first time I've noticed one testing around the yard.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Oct 27, 2009 10:29:38 GMT
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Post by flippyff on Oct 27, 2009 18:56:28 GMT
378004 was running out by New Cross Gate station this morning (0840) - the first time I've noticed one testing around the yard. I've seen a 378 at the northern end of NXG twice now, both times around 18:00. Am I right in thinking that they can't yet run into platform 1 at New Cross Gate due to the track still being splayed i.e. no protection from derailing? Simon |
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Post by carlovel1 on Oct 27, 2009 21:49:47 GMT
378 140
4car
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2009 15:36:41 GMT
378004 was running out by New Cross Gate station this morning (0840) - the first time I've noticed one testing around the yard. I've seen a 378 at the northern end of NXG twice now, both times around 18:00. Am I right in thinking that they can't yet run into platform 1 at New Cross Gate due to the track still being splayed i.e. no protection from derailing? Simon Yes, that's correct plus the CRE for the platform is still undergoing tests with Network Rail. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2009 18:04:41 GMT
As stated by that LOROL guy, #11 is on its way south
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2009 18:06:00 GMT
Isn't it two trains for Clapham - Willesden when it is a self-contained shuttle in the off-peaks? Correct |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2009 0:11:21 GMT
As stated by that LOROL guy, #11 is on its way south Just to confirm that 378011 has indeed arrived and was at Euston at 1530 (on Friday 30th) [assuming on-test] Unit still displaying signs on the cab doors stating that "this unit not sold and all traincrew must wear overshoes" or words to that effect. Regards Martin |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2009 17:55:58 GMT
313104/105 are officially Southern now. Spotted them on 5T77 Willesden-Wolverton for Repaint/Refresh earlier on.
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Post by dazz285 on Nov 3, 2009 15:28:01 GMT
378004 (4 car tester) was heading north this afternoon as it passed me at 12.28 at Carpenders Park. Hopefully they'll turn it back into a 3 car and ship it back to Willesden.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 21:04:11 GMT
378004 (4 car tester) was heading north this afternoon as it passed me at 12.28 at Carpenders Park. Hopefully they'll turn it back into a 3 car and ship it back to Willesden. And in Return #141 to Chart Leacon and #136+#140 moved to New X from Chart Leacon last night |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2009 10:14:31 GMT
Isn't it two trains for Clapham - Willesden when it is a self-contained shuttle in the off-peaks? Yes, this is true. Certain diagrams are scheduled for 313's, and some for 378's. It just so happens that one of the off peak diagrams scheduled to work the WLL is still a 313. But for how much longer is this going to be the case? Yesterday both WLL trains were 313s!  Are we going to be stuck with 313s on the WLL until the ELL opens? PS: sorry for the rather late replies  . I'm afraid I just haven't had a chance to get to a PC for a while. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2009 10:19:00 GMT
Isn't it two trains for Clapham - Willesden when it is a self-contained shuttle in the off-peaks? Indeed - it was the off-peak service I was referring to. It is comprised of two trains - one of which (and sometimes both) is, mind-bogglingly, still always a 313. All these months after the rollout of the 378s began. |
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Post by superteacher on Nov 7, 2009 15:41:31 GMT
Tubeflight, you seem to think that the WLL is a different railway to the NLL! There is no reason for insisting that both off peak trains on the line are 378's! When, for example, the Central line was changing from 1962 stock to 1992 stock, there was no desire to make sure that the trains on one branch were all 92 stock before the other branches.
Operational reasons come first - it just so happens that one of the trains that ends up on the WLL during the off peak is a 313. Granted, one of them is usually a 378, but on the day you mention, the available 378's may have been used on other diagrams, or there may have been one less unit available, so they used a spare 313 instead.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2009 15:14:42 GMT
Tubeflight, you seem to think that the WLL is a different railway to the NLL! There is no reason for insisting that both off peak trains on the line are 378's! When, for example, the Central line was changing from 1962 stock to 1992 stock, there was no desire to make sure that the trains on one branch were all 92 stock before the other branches. Sure, I see that - but it's more a case that the law of averages should by now mean that both WLL trains are 378s as the norm more often than not. I find it rather ludicrous that we're always stuck with one of those few remaining 313s and am starting to wonder of this will be the case right up to the opening of the ELL |
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Post by astock5000 on Nov 8, 2009 15:36:02 GMT
Sure, I see that - but it's more a case that the law of averages should by now mean that both WLL trains are 378s as the norm more often than not. I find it rather ludicrous that we're always stuck with one of those few remaining 313s and am starting to wonder of this will be the case right up to the opening of the ELL At the moment, there are 10 class 378s in service and about 17 - 18 class 313s. Six of the 313s are needed for the DC line, that doesn't normally use 378s at the moment, but there are still a few more 313s than 378s on the NLL/WLL. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2009 22:35:45 GMT
Sure, I see that - but it's more a case that the law of averages should by now mean that both WLL trains are 378s as the norm more often than not. I find it rather ludicrous that we're always stuck with one of those few remaining 313s and am starting to wonder of this will be the case right up to the opening of the ELL Have you been delayed by having to travel on a 313? If not, it doesn't really matter does it? One day they'll all be 378s, whether thats before the reopening of the ELL or not. When they brought in the 92TS on the Central Line when I was using it they were on a gradual basis and it never seemed to bother anyone.....patience is all that is needed here. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2009 22:34:22 GMT
#12 is being taken down as I speak.
I've noticed there seems to be a sudden increase of 313s on CLJ-SFD Peaks, used to be all 378 a month ago.
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Post by geebeezed on Nov 11, 2009 4:11:47 GMT
Yep, just tucked 378012 in Willesden shed 2½ hours ago! Got another 2 moves this week, with some archive photos to go on Flickr.. Just because!  |
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Post by mcmaddog on Nov 11, 2009 9:29:45 GMT
378 actually in New Cross Gate station this morning with doors released (the platform barriers are still up).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 11:57:58 GMT
Sure, I see that - but it's more a case that the law of averages should by now mean that both WLL trains are 378s as the norm more often than not. I find it rather ludicrous that we're always stuck with one of those few remaining 313s and am starting to wonder of this will be the case right up to the opening of the ELL At the moment, there are 10 class 378s in service and about 17 - 18 class 313s. Six of the 313s are needed for the DC line, that doesn't normally use 378s at the moment, but there are still a few more 313s than 378s on the NLL/WLL. Thanks for putting me right on that. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2009 12:04:33 GMT
Sure, I see that - but it's more a case that the law of averages should by now mean that both WLL trains are 378s as the norm more often than not. I find it rather ludicrous that we're always stuck with one of those few remaining 313s and am starting to wonder of this will be the case right up to the opening of the ELL Have you been delayed by having to travel on a 313? If not, it doesn't really matter does it?. It matters in the sense that the 313s have a really clapped-out feel to them now, in my opinion, and have a dreadful ride-quality (lurching about on the start-off and then thudding along due to their perpetual wheel-flats) also in my opinion. They really are waaayyy past their "sell-by date" and ought to have been pensioned off years ago, imo (superior - yet younger - stock have been given the heave-ho before them). I'm sure the 313s were "cutting edge" stuff when they first came out, but they really are past their best now. I'm not the biggest fan of the 378's internal layout, but the ride quality is streets ahead of the 313s. |
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. I'm afraid I just haven't had a chance to get to a PC for a while. 
