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Post by crusty54 on Jul 17, 2014 6:53:41 GMT
To think that a 12min frequency was once considered necessary! I had thought the Brading loop would replace that at Sandown. If so, what would happen in summertime when surely something more than 2tph is needed? I'd heard that the conversion of the 38ts had gone way over expected! I'd also heard though that they'd skimpped in other areas. Surely though salt water is likely to cause worse corrosion to steel bodied stock than aluminium stock? Granted the underframe is steel on both though. 38s have a lot of layers of paint
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jul 17, 2014 7:00:11 GMT
The 12 min headway was when the line was electrified in 66/67 and before the days of the enormous ferries! They used to run a 7 car train every 12mins too! The requirement for 6x7-car trains (on summer Saturdays) left just one motor car spare at the depot. Sounds about right. However, it was quickly found that traffic levels dropped within a year or so once the big ferries came along. Somewhere about I've got a cine film of a cab ride I had in about 1968 along the line.
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Post by christopher125 on Jul 20, 2014 11:07:17 GMT
I had thought the Brading loop would replace that at Sandown. If so, what would happen in summertime when surely something more than 2tph is needed? 2tph is the normal frequency in Summer so that shouldn't be an issue, and I'd imagine any loop at Brading would be accompanied by the singling of the line through Ryde anyway. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 12:30:58 GMT
As far as I know there are no concrete plans to reinstate the passing loop at Brading - as this would 'cost'. The 20/40 minute service has been in operation from the late-1980s after Brading box closed, although a 20-minute summer Saturday service (not timetabled!) was provided from 2001 until at least 2003 for the busiest part of the day. As far as I can recall the Pier shuttle hasn't operated after the 1997 season?
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Jul 20, 2014 12:59:57 GMT
Thats really odd. I thought they started off after the late 80s rationalisation with a 20/20/20 frequency? If not then surely Brading would have been a better place to site the passing loop; the track was there anyway, it would have enabled a regular 2tph frequency instead of an irregular one, and it possibly would have reduced signalling costs because of the shorter distance to St Johns?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 14:58:16 GMT
Thats really odd. I thought they started off after the late 80s rationalisation with a 20/20/20 frequency? If not then surely Brading would have been a better place to site the passing loop; the track was there anyway, it would have enabled a regular 2tph frequency instead of an irregular one, and it possibly would have reduced signalling costs because of the shorter distance to St Johns? They did indeed, but it didn't last very long. A year or so max?
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metman
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Post by metman on Jul 20, 2014 16:20:54 GMT
It's a shame it isn't a two track railway throughout! Is there room to start the passing loop at Brading and have two tracks to Sandown?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 16:47:24 GMT
There has never been a passing loop at brading, so it is impossible to reinstate what has never been there! The line used to be double all the way from Brading to Sandown
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 17:13:21 GMT
True it was a double track railway from Brading to Sandown (but only from 1927, not before), but wasn't there also a crossover on the Sandown side of the station many years ago, and then there was the Bembridge bay platform at Brading.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 19:07:46 GMT
quite a bit of infrastructure at one time, with it being a junction, and the bay platform would have had run round facilities.
There would have been freight coming off the bembridge branch from the harbour at st Helens, so may have been some goods sidings.
Will be if I can find a track plan
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 20, 2014 21:42:35 GMT
The formation was wide enough for two tracks (minimum) between Pier Head and Smallbrook Jnct, Brading and Sandown, Shanklin station environs, and Wroxall station environs. The Southern long aspired to double Sandown-Shanklin but never did. Dont know if they purchased all the land necessary either.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 17:00:12 GMT
Regarding the corrosion concerns, it may be that an all steel vehicle is preferable to an aluminium and steel vehicle to avoid galvanic corrosion issues where the rusting steel "eats" the aluminium. Just ask any Land Rover owner.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jul 21, 2014 19:58:00 GMT
I understand the plans to install a loop at Brading are parts of the IWSR/NR talks to allow the IWSR into Ryde St.Johns.
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Post by John Tuthill on Jul 21, 2014 20:14:54 GMT
I understand the plans to install a loop at Brading are parts of the IWSR/NR talks to allow the IWSR into Ryde St.Johns. I've seen photos of recent incidences where this has actually happened. But a RT-there is a famous photo of a RT recently left PRV, took the wrong turning and just removed the actual roof courtesy of the Piccadilly Line. All the window pillars intact.
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Post by John Tuthill on Jul 21, 2014 20:16:29 GMT
I understand the plans to install a loop at Brading are parts of the IWSR/NR talks to allow the IWSR into Ryde St.Johns. I've seen photos of recent incidences where this has actually happened. But a RT-there is a famous photo of a RT recently left PRV, took the wrong turning and just removed the actual roof courtesy of the Piccadilly Line. All the window pillars intact. Sorry, it's in the wrong thread
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 21:43:09 GMT
I've seen photos of recent incidences where this has actually happened. But a RT-there is a famous photo of a RT recently left PRV, took the wrong turning and just removed the actual roof courtesy of the Piccadilly Line. All the window pillars intact. Sorry, it's in the wrong thread Heh! Not the first time I've done that!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 22:12:06 GMT
My cynical mind is at work here but what happens if another unit gets damaged? Once down to 3 serviceable units you'd have to say that there would be reliability issues as less units would cover more miles and cancellations would become more commonplace. As it is, the remaining 4 will now need more maintenance.
So how long is it until the DfT point out that it would be cheaper to mothball the railway and replace it with a bus service? Especially if they promise that the money saved will be reinvested in the island (though obviously it wouldn't).
With a cold business head on you've got to wonder how much longer the line will exist.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jul 22, 2014 17:15:20 GMT
Is there any spare rolling stock available to run the service? Spare 72 mark 1 stock perhaps? Could 3 or 4 car trains be used?
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Post by brigham on Jul 22, 2014 21:21:48 GMT
My cynical mind is at work here but what happens if another unit gets damaged? Once down to 3 serviceable units you'd have to say that there would be reliability issues as less units would cover more miles and cancellations would become more commonplace. As it is, the remaining 4 will now need more maintenance. So how long is it until the DfT point out that it would be cheaper to mothball the railway and replace it with a bus service? Especially if they promise that the money saved will be reinvested in the island (though obviously it wouldn't). With a cold business head on you've got to wonder how much longer the line will exist. It might be a candidate for transfer to a not-for-profit trust, with a wider remit than passenger transport.
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Post by rsdworker on Jul 22, 2014 21:34:57 GMT
well island could have own island railway company - like steam railway has - which could take over the existing one and make better because bus does not work well in there - if you have alots of people coming from ferry or on foot - bus on isle of wright is small i think
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Post by brigham on Jul 23, 2014 11:49:51 GMT
"...- bus on isle of wright is small i think"
I know a chap who bought one; an ex- Southern Vectis Bristol. It certainly was small, compared to his normal ones.
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 23, 2014 14:41:00 GMT
brigham - although the S Vectis bus operator doesn't have any triaxle monsters, their fleet is much the same as on the mainland in terms of vehicle types and sizes. (If it's coverage that's meant, I have to say that the bus network on the island is a real throwback to the fifties - every settlement has a service, most routes are high frequency by today's standards, and the connexions seem to work). That said, the IOW Steam railway and S Vectis did seriously consider putting in a joint bid for the franchise when it was first let - the attraction for the IOWSR is being able to run through to Ryde as a useful tourist attraction, not to provide a public transport service: Haven Street is hardly a large settlement, and access to Newport is wholly impossible thanks to the new ring road and the Matalan (?) store!
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Post by brigham on Jul 23, 2014 21:17:30 GMT
My comment may have been a little whimsical. Nevertheless, the bus in question is mainly remarkable for its diminutive size. A short-chassis LH with a 35-seat body by Marshall's of Cambridge.
It wasn't bought from Vectis stock. It had appeared in the fleet of long-established Co. Durham operator United Automobile Services, and had been privately purchased by a group of United enthusiasts, who present it in the various liveries it wore for that Operator; not a common practice in preservation circles.
Southern Vectis No.833. A picture of it in service would be nice!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 9:43:54 GMT
My comment may have been a little whimsical. Nevertheless, the bus in question is mainly remarkable for its diminutive size. A short-chassis LH with a 35-seat body by Marshall's of Cambridge. It wasn't bought from Vectis stock. It had appeared in the fleet of long-established Co. Durham operator United Automobile Services, and had been privately purchased by a group of United enthusiasts, who present it in the various liveries it wore for that Operator; not a common practice in preservation circles. Southern Vectis No.833. A picture of it in service would be nice! That would be the Aycliffe group then. Anyway, getting back on topic, it's only a few weeks until I get to sample the '38 stock again. My last trip to the island was when the pre-1938 stock was being replaced by the present 1938 stock. I think it was July 1990, the main service was in the hands of the 'new' stock (!) and the Ryde Esplanade to Pier Head shuttle was a pre-1938 stock. Ryde Pier shuttle: I had numerous unnecessary journeys on this train! Standard on the pier by DH73., on Flickr New Order: Two trains of 1938 stock, recently introduced, pass at Ryde St.John's Road Island Line by DH73., on Flickr
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 24, 2014 16:03:20 GMT
Potential for corrosion on all stocks after the 38s. Salt water on the pier section is the problem. Why are post-war stock more prone to corrosion? I'd have thought that the 1938 stock, being made of steel, would be more prone to corrosion than their aluminium successors. Or is there more exposed underfloor equipment on the later stocks?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 24, 2014 16:07:28 GMT
well island could have own island railway company - like steam railway has - which could take over the existing one and make better because bus does not work well in there - if you have alots of people coming from ferry or on foot - bus on isle of wright is small i think As with many islands, (Man, Channel Islands, etc) the bus service is actually quite good, because car ownership is relatively low: you can't take a car very far before you have to pay a lot of money to a ferry company.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 24, 2014 16:09:05 GMT
Sorry, it's in the wrong thread Heh! Not the first time I've done that! Looks like you took a wrong turning yourself!
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 25, 2014 12:18:59 GMT
Potential for corrosion on all stocks after the 38s. Salt water on the pier section is the problem. Why are post-war stock more prone to corrosion? I'd have thought that the 1938 stock, being made of steel, would be more prone to corrosion than their aluminium successors. Or is there more exposed underfloor equipment on the later stocks? More of the equipment is under the seats and lots of coats of paint.
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Post by christopher125 on Jul 25, 2014 15:48:22 GMT
So how long is it until the DfT point out that it would be cheaper to mothball the railway and replace it with a bus service? Especially if they promise that the money saved will be reinvested in the island (though obviously it wouldn't). Buses can't use the pier, one of the reasons for retaining the line in the first place, and the roads can be very congested in summer - with no real political appetite for closing any line there's really no risk of closure in the foreseeable future, but further rationalisation is a possibility when the signalling is renewed. Chris
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Post by roboverground on Aug 5, 2014 17:27:52 GMT
Recently returned from a weekend on the Island and noticed this on display at Ryde Esplanade - graphics department to explain- eagle eyed forum users to comment on drivers kneehole space- all other publicity seemed correct!. - Units 006/007/008/009 noted in use with 004 in the shed at St Johns Road split with (A end) 'pier head end' car up on jacks.
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