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Post by The Tram Man on Jul 9, 2014 16:12:28 GMT
Quite some time ago i read that the trains on the Isle of Wight were to be replaced, and just now i found a thread written in 2010 where it was stated that Stagecoach were to replace the 1938 stock within 5-7 years. That just leaves 1-3 years to go. However, what the thread did not state was what kind of stock the island would recieve. Some answers indicated Victoria Line stock, and others Piccadilly stock. Has anything been decided about this?
There was also one question regarding the livery the trains would wear. One member suggested they would be painted in Stagecoach colours, but again, nothing was confirmed.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 9, 2014 16:26:30 GMT
I recall reading that LU 1967/1972 stock trains were rejected because of the lack of a cab side door. I don't remember how official this was, but the old Victoria line trains have now been scrapped anyway.
I was under the impression that they had their eye set on 1973 stock, however the delay to the Picc upgrade means that these trains wont be available on the then-predicted timescale. It also means that the other option of piggybacking onto a new train order by LU has also been delayed. AIUI this means the options are keeping the 1938 stock running longer than hoped/planned; spending (significant amounts of) money to upgrade clearances in the Ryde tunnel to accommodate mainline stock; or converting the line to a tram or tram-train and bypassing the tunnel.
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Post by The Tram Man on Jul 9, 2014 18:43:32 GMT
If that's the situation i hope they keep the 1938 stock rolling longer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 20:09:39 GMT
I go to the Isle of Wight quite often and in most times, I use the Island Line. Now, I think it's about time they replace the 38TS with something like the Cravens 1960 tube stock or possibly the 1983TS
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 20:29:17 GMT
I go to the Isle of Wight quite often and in most times, I use the Island Line. Now, I think it's about time they replace the 38TS with something like the Cravens 1960 tube stock or possibly the 1983TS There's no chance of either of those because there are only the two Track Recording motors and the two motor cars of Cravens Heritage Trains of 1960 Tube Stock, and the only 1983 Tube Stock left are three units at South Harrow, which haven't moved for some 15 years. Last time I had an IoW update a couple of months ago, there were no plans to replace the 1938 Tube Stock.
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Post by The Tram Man on Jul 9, 2014 22:53:30 GMT
Now i have to very different replies. One saying that they are going to be replaced, and yours, reganorak. Personally though, i hope you are right.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 5:58:38 GMT
I did see recently a LT livery Cravens 1960 at Northfields depot though NOT a track recording unit.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jul 10, 2014 6:25:52 GMT
I did see recently a LT livery Cravens 1960 at Northfields depot though NOT a track recording unit. As far as I know, the only LT livery Cravens 60TS still in existence is the Cravens Heritage train. It comprises two 60TS DMS and a converted 38TS trailer. The track recording train is similar in configuration but has a converted 73TS trailer instead of the 38TS trailer. I think the other 60TS DMS are long gone now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 10:16:12 GMT
Well anyway. I swear I saw it looking from the platforms at Northfields?
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 10, 2014 11:08:02 GMT
Cravens Heritage train is in northfields depot and some times the TRV on 15 road as well, At the moment the TRV is out. FISH7373
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 13:02:04 GMT
I go to the Isle of Wight quite often and in most times, I use the Island Line. Now, I think it's about time they replace the 38TS with something like the Cravens 1960 tube stock or possibly the 1983TS There's no chance of either of those because there are only the two Track Recording motors and the two motor cars of Cravens Heritage Trains of 1960 Tube Stock, and the only 1983 Tube Stock left are three units at South Harrow, which haven't moved for some 15 years. Last time I had an IoW update a couple of months ago, there were no plans to replace the 1938 Tube Stock. From the horses' mouths (note plural ) today - No plans to replace the existing trains. With one 'flooded' unit not fixed, there are 4 operational units.
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Post by The Tram Man on Jul 10, 2014 14:49:43 GMT
From the horses' mouths (note plural ) today - No plans to replace the existing trains. With one 'flooded' unit not fixed, there are 4 operational units. Nice! Thanks for your reply, mate.
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 10, 2014 16:56:35 GMT
There's no chance of either of those because there are only the two Track Recording motors and the two motor cars of Cravens Heritage Trains of 1960 Tube Stock, and the only 1983 Tube Stock left are three units at South Harrow, which haven't moved for some 15 years. Last time I had an IoW update a couple of months ago, there were no plans to replace the 1938 Tube Stock. From the horses' mouths (note plural ) today - No plans to replace the existing trains. With one 'flooded' unit not fixed, there are 4 operational units. Hi reganorak im lost with this sorry. With one 'flooded' unit not fixed FISH7373
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Post by domh245 on Jul 10, 2014 17:05:03 GMT
During the winter storms just gone, one of the 38TS units (class 483) on the isle of white was flooded. I'm guessing that it will become another spares donor, as it'll probably be very difficult and uneconomic to repair!
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Post by fish7373 on Jul 10, 2014 17:08:50 GMT
During the winter storms just gone, one of the 38TS units (class 483) on the isle of white was flooded. I'm guessing that it will become another spares donor, as it'll probably be very difficult and uneconomic to repair! Ok thanks for infor FISH7373
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:39:54 GMT
During the winter storms just gone, one of the 38TS units (class 483) on the isle of white was flooded. I'm guessing that it will become another spares donor, as it'll probably be very difficult and uneconomic to repair! No, the information today is that it will be returned to service - just taking a bit longer than planned. Only 002 is the one not going anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 10:28:23 GMT
Cant help thinking there was a big opportunity missed here a few years ago with the 1983 stock
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Post by Colin D on Jul 13, 2014 15:12:15 GMT
Is there any reason thy the 62ts wasn't considered?
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 13, 2014 15:53:11 GMT
Potential for corrosion on all stocks after the 38s.
Salt water on the pier section is the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 17:56:16 GMT
Is there any reason thy the 62ts wasn't considered? The 1962s were discounted because of the money spent on the 1938s. Much more was spent on them than originally envisaged because of the King's Cross fire, so to replace them 5 or so years after they (the 1938s) were introduced on the IoW was a definite no-no. For similar reasons the 1959s that followed the 1962s. The IoW wanted the 1973 Stock and this was the plan when a 2014 Tube Stock (Piccadilly Line) was proposed (and then not proceed with). I think they are still 'interested' in the 1973s, but they will have rather a long wait for them .....
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Post by The Tram Man on Jul 13, 2014 19:23:17 GMT
Cant help thinking there was a big opportunity missed here a few years ago with the 1983 stock Considering the fact that they were rather problematic, from what i understand, i don't think they were a big loss.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jul 13, 2014 22:38:54 GMT
Agreed. They would need a lot of mods to be able to run as 2 car units and they are longer than standard cars.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 9:36:23 GMT
Agreed. They would need a lot of mods to be able to run as 2 car units and they are longer than standard cars. In saying that, the 1973s are longer than standard too.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jul 14, 2014 10:00:58 GMT
Yes true which is a strange decision to want them considering that the 1938 stock had to run as 2 car units to avoid lengthening the car sheds at St Johns Road.
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Post by phillw48 on Jul 14, 2014 16:59:13 GMT
There are 16 tramcars (T69) from the Birmingham system that will shortly be withdrawn. Why not convert the Island line to a tramway? The Birmingham cars are suitable for street running so the problematic Ryde Esplanade tunnel could be eliminated by running the trams through the streets. The capacity problems could be eliminated by running a more frequent service with perhaps additional stops and bypass loops. The redundant tunnel could even be turned into a (cars only) underpass like the Strand Underpass.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 14, 2014 17:40:16 GMT
There are 16 tramcars (T69) from the Birmingham system that will shortly be withdrawn. Why not convert the Island line to a tramway? The Birmingham cars are suitable for street running so the problematic Ryde Esplanade tunnel could be eliminated by running the trams through the streets. The capacity problems could be eliminated by running a more frequent service with perhaps additional stops and bypass loops. The redundant tunnel could even be turned into a (cars only) underpass like the Strand Underpass. Don't go there. The T69s are inherently unreliable and every one is different in true AnsaldoBreda style. The same goes for Manchester's earlier T68 trams which are now all withdrawn. It is telling that in Birmingham two T69s have been out of service for many years to keep the rest of the fleet running, whilst similar happened in Manchester before their final withdrawal - both classes are good for nothing other than scrap! That said, two T69s are already earmarked for a new Light Rail testing facility at Long Marston, with the rest due to be stored there indefinitely as a 'reserve' fleet if extra capacity is needed in Birmingham. Remember also that converting the line to a tramway will incur great cost of building the new formation and electrifying the whole line with OLE rather than the third rail currently in place.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 15, 2014 7:00:38 GMT
The "convert it to a tramway" idea has been discussed many times before. There was even a company set up I believe by the late Fred Ward and Tom Cadman about 25 years ago promoting re-opening the other closed lines using second-hand Duwag cars from Germany. As stated in one of the books on Island railways: "The Islanders were asked to put their hands in their pockets. They did, and they stayed there".
There is I understand serious talk about reinstating the loop at Brading which would allow a 30-minute headway to operate instead of the 40/20 service. Remember too the IWSR is in negotiations to run into Ryde St.Johns.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 15, 2014 15:32:52 GMT
To think that a 12min frequency was once considered necessary!
I had thought the Brading loop would replace that at Sandown. If so, what would happen in summertime when surely something more than 2tph is needed?
I'd heard that the conversion of the 38ts had gone way over expected! I'd also heard though that they'd skimpped in other areas.
Surely though salt water is likely to cause worse corrosion to steel bodied stock than aluminium stock? Granted the underframe is steel on both though.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 15, 2014 18:41:04 GMT
The 12 min headway was when the line was electrified in 66/67 and before the days of the enormous ferries! They used to run a 7 car train every 12mins too!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 18:43:11 GMT
The 12 min headway was when the line was electrified in 66/67 and before the days of the enormous ferries! They used to run a 7 car train every 12mins too! The requirement for 6x7-car trains (on summer Saturdays) left just one motor car spare at the depot.
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