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Post by jardine01 on Mar 13, 2012 7:20:26 GMT
When it showed us the 2009 stock why was the driver driving manually it did not look like it was going to the depot?
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Post by auxsetreq on Mar 13, 2012 8:24:46 GMT
I wonder what would happen if a group of men met and then make fun of a lonely, frustrated woman on the end of a phone line for a tv program. Would they all snigger in front of the documentary tv cameras as one would talk dirty to her knowing that doing so also earns him a mega bucket of dosh. Could you imagine the outcry from the media, the women's right groups, female MPs asking questions in the House. Laws being introduced quickly to stop such abuse of lonley women and to protect them. Well, just reverse it, because that's what happened last night in C4's 10pm program about phone sex. A bit of an ear opener, it was just another men bashing that seems to go on these days. Sexism isn't dead, and it's men these days that seem to get most of it........'Auxy'..............'AUXY!!!!' - 'Yes, Ceiling Cat' -' Wrong forum, wrong show' - 'Really, oh yeah, I'm supposed to be talking about La Tube am I not?' - 'Yes................'
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One name comes instantly to mind after watching the previous week's show and the one on last night..........
........... *Dylan Glenister*...........Yes, the Piccadilly Line Tube driver who seems to have imbibed some of *professor* Brian Cox's radioactive Ribena which the *prof* creates from deep space particles that get trapped in his large flotation tanks full of purple goo in his hush hush lab beneath Marble Arch sidings......................
*Dylan* exhibited many of the symptoms of over dosing on the *profs* libation by becoming a twitching maniac and touching the inside of the cab he was in in an erotic way while spouting daftness. I do hope he took my offer of visiting my head doctor's clinic for treatment. In the meantime I'm sending over to the Picc one of my straight jackets for his exclusive use of.............He'll find it awkward at first as he'll have to hold down the Deadman's Handle with his chin, and the gag will make his PAs sound muffled, along with his daftness. But, like me he'll soon get used to it...........
CC and myself have decided it unwise to comment on Tube Driver Sister Hail Mary of The Bakerloo line. Because if we did, we'd no doubt be issued with a Fatwa from The Pope.........
Jollification ('This madness is my swimming pool') for the cameras yet again set to Maximum Overload. Trust me, when the cameras aren't around, it's not like that. This program is a mixed bag isn't it. Daftness, and educational, eye popping scenes like the digging of tunnels, and BIG holes in the ground.
I'd also like to comment on the phenomenon of the possessive aspect that seems to affect certain types of managers..................Seen last night in the aforementioned BIG hole Howard Collins said something like this 'You can see people moving just beyond the hoardings. Eventually, they'll be descending into *MY* ticket hall' This is not the first time I've heard this possessivity << ( A word I've just made up ) from him. 'Why should *I* pay staff extra to work on Boxing Day................He's not the only one to do this. 'Auxsetreq, the stick's been off now for ages, you're delaying *MY* railway' - ' Oh, shut up you great tool, I needed the litter tray!'
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
Posts: 686
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Post by kabsonline on Mar 13, 2012 8:25:38 GMT
When it showed us the 2009 stock why was the driver driving manually it did not look like it was going to the depot? I was thinking that. The driver was going on about how good it was that you only needed one leaver to drive the train and I was thinking that well you only need to push one button to drive the train and then you can sit there and enjoy the view lol! ;D
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Post by tecchy on Mar 13, 2012 8:30:24 GMT
They kept flicking between PM from Seven sisters to North Park, and ATO on the mainline. Not that the average viewer would notice that....!
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Post by dagdave on Mar 13, 2012 8:41:02 GMT
I can cope with most of the coverage and enjoy it for what it is but I must admit to cringing at the use of "MY ticket hall" too
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
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Post by Oracle on Mar 13, 2012 10:31:46 GMT
Oh dear...I used to look like the guys in the 1967 Stock when I was 16 and [gulp] still do though I have little hair now! Yes when I was 16 I was 'into' the tube as well.... 40 years later I still am. I must add that I admire The Boss... I have been there when things have gone wrong and we have had a conference to find out why. Cringing by those responsible was a sight to see. Only in my day the person i/c usually asked for names but then added that 'heads will roll'. I hope that I have the pleasure of shaking his hand one day.
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
Posts: 686
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Post by kabsonline on Mar 13, 2012 13:06:54 GMT
I feel sorry for the guy that is going to be named for the troubles on the Victoria Line
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Post by 21146 on Mar 13, 2012 14:25:25 GMT
The "sensitive edge" incident actually showed how such programmes are fabricated. AFAIUI there was only one camera team so the idea that we were seeing the same event from different perspectives - incident train, train stalled behind, at other stations, and in the line control room, was clearly impossible. I wondered if the Line Controller was pretending to witness the delay in real-time whilst actually watching it on Trackernet Replay?
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Post by causton on Mar 13, 2012 15:56:11 GMT
Two or three events spliced together to look like the same one maybe?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 17:43:18 GMT
Anybody else annoyed that the NOC is being presented as the place that runs the whole network! They dont make the decisions and the people in there are not controllers as the show last nite addressed them to be!! Just a bit annoying how 80% of the show was about the Vic line and, there was 30 seconds of footage from the vic control room but 5 or 6 minutes from the NOC. Jus seem's but silly to me. And yes i work in victoria service control lol!! They filmed for about 5 hours at our place n ended up showing only 30 seconds in a victoria themed epsiode, i dnt need to remind you all what the NOC's nickname used to be and why
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 13, 2012 17:45:33 GMT
I'm not sure what the NOCs nickname used to be, but I always first think of "NOC" as meaning "no overall control" as used in the context of local council elections.
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Post by Colin D on Mar 13, 2012 18:23:40 GMT
I've just got the first two of the series thanks to "me dear ol dad", just need to find time to watch them and look forward to getting the rest of the series.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 19:08:38 GMT
NOC's nickname was very uncomplimentary, ill leave it at that, but its jus silly that the NOC is bein made out to be the holy grail, when the reality is they dont do anything, except pass information!
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pitdiver
No longer gainfully employed
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Post by pitdiver on Mar 13, 2012 19:14:05 GMT
Is NOC the new name for what I used know as NCC
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Mar 13, 2012 19:35:59 GMT
Yes.
EDIT: and for those how haven't got a clue what either officially means:
NCC - Network Control Centre NOC - Network Operations Centre
It was renamed to better reflect the fact that it doesn't actually control anything.
It's role is to be the central point where all train & station service information flows (and is thus decimated from via the various media channels) as well as co-ordinating things like emergency calls to fire & ambulance, liaising with other transport providers, RAIB, HMRI, etc, etc. They also manage staff taxis and generally keep an overview of the whole network.
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Post by tubeprune on Mar 13, 2012 21:51:26 GMT
I thought it was more like the "David Waboso Show". All that posturing over the signal failure and the 09TS doors Mind you, the 09TS sensitive edge debacle was predictable. Why didn't they take the advice offered by some of us practical folk and drop the whole expensive idea? Instead it cost £3million to fix on top of what it cost to install.
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Post by londonstuff on Mar 13, 2012 22:01:06 GMT
I thought it was more like the "David Waboso Show". All that posturing over the signal failure and the 09TS doors Mind you, the 09TS sensitive edge debacle was predictable. Why didn't they take the advice offered by some of us practical folk and drop the whole expensive idea? Instead it cost £3million to fix on top of what it cost to install. But then imagine what the subStandard would have said if a child had been dragged under a train again and they reported that LU had chosen not to implement it. No win situation for them really.
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Post by jardine01 on Mar 13, 2012 22:26:56 GMT
I did enjoy this episode but it was not fantastic though far to heavilly based on the Victoria line I wish it showed us more lines. I wonder what next weeks episode is about?
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jazza
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Post by jazza on Mar 13, 2012 22:39:48 GMT
Poorest episode so far but maybe what was needed after last weeks rather intense one. I too cringed at the "my ticket hall" remark and also found the other manager rather hard going with his "I want a name" comment. Not the greatest managerial style in my book. Cannot comment on the remarks above re the splicing together of footage to make a story about the door edges, however the editing in at least two other scenes (both in cabs) was really poor. Very obvious joins in the footage and somewhat unprofessional looking. Hope they are back up to the usual standard next week.
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Post by auxsetreq on Mar 13, 2012 22:58:31 GMT
I thought it was more like the "David Waboso Show". All that posturing over the signal failure and the 09TS doors Mind you, the 09TS sensitive edge debacle was predictable. Why didn't they take the advice offered by some of us practical folk and drop the whole expensive idea? Instead it cost £3million to fix on top of what it cost to install. Outrageous really. That line closed early to test run those trains for ( how long was it? ) about a year to make sure they worked perfectly from day one. They didn't want a repeat of the 92 saga, but instead they've now got one of their very own. Three £mil to put it right with one of the first, of no doubt many mods. 'An intelligent sensitive edge' she blurbed. It doesn't take much intelligence to work out that testing a new train with no punters on it is not really testing it out at all............. Thing is, the EVOstuck-away-with-the-fairies-accountant's-wet-dream-tube-train-of-the-future depends on the sensitive edge idea for it to work. The Tube's too banged out for most of the day for it to work. It's a daft idea, a bit like asking your mum to put on the carrots over a train's PA..........
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Post by tecchy on Mar 14, 2012 19:39:03 GMT
Outrageous really. That line closed early to test run those trains for ( how long was it? ) about a year to make sure they worked perfectly from day one. They didn't want a repeat of the 92 saga, but instead they've now got one of their very own. Three £mil to put it right with one of the first, of no doubt many mods. 'An intelligent sensitive edge' she blurbed. It doesn't take much intelligence to work out that testing a new train with no punters on it is not really testing it out at all............. Thing is, the EVOstuck-away-with-the-fairies-accountant's-wet-dream-tube-train-of-the-future depends on the sensitive edge idea for it to work. The Tube's too banged out for most of the day for it to work. It's a daft idea, a bit like asking your mum to put on the carrots over a train's PA.......... So testing the traction package (Speed/ Acceleration), brakes, TCMS, CCTV, Customer Information System, Air system, power supplies including collector shoes, lights/ auxiliaries, safety circuits and the ability to run to a timetable on the track that it will be running on for the next 40 years does not justify testing because that list didn't include the doors? (the list is not exhaustive) The sensitive edge system was actually tested on one double door set of a C Stock unit. It would not cause the doors to re-open or the emergency brake to apply but it was used to log when a sensitive edge activation would of occurred. I believe a camera was also placed on the roof viewing the fitted doors. The only successful way to test this sensitive edge is to test it on the line and run it during the peaks, the tourist hours, with the drunks, the kids, the businessmen to see how it fairs out and adjust if necessary. They did that and created appropriate mod(s) to sort the problem. It is imperative that a professional expert approach to these type of problems is executed to achieve a workable solution rather than a knee jerk reaction which ends up by making the situation worse or no better than it previously was. Even the most reliable of trains have mods, not only to improve reliability but to aid drivers and maintenance in day to day running. Every train on LU has a list of mods as long as your arm!
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Post by citysig on Mar 14, 2012 22:40:45 GMT
The only episode so far where I felt like nodding off - which is very very rare for me whenever something related to my company is on tv. I thought it was more like the "David Waboso Show". All that posturing over the signal failure and the 09TS doors I did notice the GM of the Vic sitting there in a pose I've sat infront of before when he was my manager. More or less "I've seen it before and your act for the cameras is just that. I won't be quoted, but we'll speak later..." As for the NOC, well followers of the the old The Tube series on ITV will have watched a certain key figure of the clips grow from being a mere Duty Trains Manager (apparently implying signallers sleep) testing out signal telephones, to one of LUL's key figures in the place that controls the tube. I shouldn't be bitter. But the NOC really wouldn't have anything to oversee if those of us in the real world didn't tell them what was going on. Trackernet will only reveal so many things, and when it freezes up, all they get is warnings that trains have ground to a halt. Try hitting "refresh"
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Colin
Advisor
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Post by Colin on Mar 15, 2012 0:14:58 GMT
Mind you, the 09TS sensitive edge debacle was predictable. Why didn't they take the advice offered by some of us practical folk and drop the whole expensive idea? Thing is, the EVOstuck-away-with-the-fairies-accountant's-wet-dream-tube-train-of-the-future depends on the sensitive edge idea for it to work. The Tube's too banged out for most of the day for it to work. It's a daft idea, a bit like asking your mum to put on the carrots over a train's PA.......... What a shame it is to see people of the calibre of you two dismissing such an important new technology. And one that will save lives too. I'm sure you're both well aware of the Holborn dragging incident many years ago - whilst we've thankfully not seen a repeat of it to date, it will happen again one day - you two are quite happy to sit there and justify not fitting this new technology that will save a life one day? I'm not that naive - I do know that somewhere along the way somebody will quote the price of a life and say the cost versus life ratio justifies leaving it on the shelf, but are you seriously that dismissive of it? Just like that, off the cuff, it's a straight "we should never have gone there"? Actually, what price is a life? There's bound to be a few hiccups along the way - anything that's new is bound to have it's teething issues; if you think otherwise you must be bonkers. As was pointed out in the programme, nobody really thought to consider that there might be a difference based upon whether the resisting force would inside or outside, nor that the difference was actually quite important. This technology was well known about on this very forum long before the first train was built, yet nobody here posted any concerns - it's very easy to criticise from our armchairs when none of us are actually experts!! And on the face of it £3million does seem steep, but in railway terms that's actually quite cheap for a modification across a fleet of 40 odd 8 car trains. And now that this technology is better understood, that money will pay for itself in the long term.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 7:53:49 GMT
Sorry, but Im sure the Holborn incident was with a set of doors that were worm gear driven electrical doors trialled on a 62ts?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 15, 2012 10:35:52 GMT
Nope - the incident I'm referring to occurred on the Piccadilly line in October 1997, so it happened with the current 73ts.
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Post by auxsetreq on Mar 15, 2012 10:47:18 GMT
Mind you, the 09TS sensitive edge debacle was predictable. Why didn't they take the advice offered by some of us practical folk and drop the whole expensive idea? Thing is, the EVOstuck-away-with-the-fairies-accountant's-wet-dream-tube-train-of-the-future depends on the sensitive edge idea for it to work. The Tube's too banged out for most of the day for it to work. It's a daft idea, a bit like asking your mum to put on the carrots over a train's PA.......... What a shame it is to see people of the calibre of you two dismissing such an important new technology. And one that will save lives too. I'm sure you're both well aware of the Holborn dragging incident many years ago - whilst we've thankfully not seen a repeat of it to date, it will happen again one day - you two are quite happy to sit there and justify not fitting this new technology that will save a life one day? I'm not that naive - I do know that somewhere along the way somebody will quote the price of a life and say the cost versus life ratio justifies leaving it on the shelf, but are you seriously that dismissive of it? Just like that, off the cuff, it's a straight "we should never have gone there"? Actually, what price is a life? There's bound to be a few hiccups along the way - anything that's new is bound to have it's teething issues; if you think otherwise you must be bonkers. As was pointed out in the programme, nobody really thought to consider that there might be a difference based upon whether the resisting force would inside or outside, nor that the difference was actually quite important. This technology was well known about on this very forum long before the first train was built, yet nobody here posted any concerns - it's very easy to criticise from our armchairs when none of us are actually experts!! And on the face of it £3million does seem steep, but in railway terms that's actually quite cheap for a modification across a fleet of 40 odd 8 car trains. And now that this technology is better understood, that money will pay for itself in the long term. I'm not in an armchair, I'm on a kneeling stool, ( my poor back ) and Ceiling Cat ( a feline of massive calibre) in her basket. Oh and we're BIG fans of Tube Prune, a bloke who seems to know what he's talking about.............. I cannot, recall any dragging incidents on any of the modern stocks ( 92/95/96 ) in recent times. The Holborn incident was tragic, yes, but that was on a 73 who's driver was *blind behind* as his monitors/mirrors were left behind on the platform as he departed. Now we have in-cab monitors, which as the incident on the Jubilee Line ( kiddie under the train ) of a few weeks ago proved are very effective in preventing a tragedy. Though sensitive edges would not of helped a jot in that case.......... Ceiling Cat and I are certainly not dismissing sensitive edge technology, It'll work fine on the S stock as the larger spaces available will allow it to function better. But on the Vic, with it's banged out service and with all the pushing and shoving that goes on on the deep level tube lines, it's not very practical so one doesn't have to be an expert to see the blatantly obvious. The Central/ Jub/ Northern seem to manage very well without it as we can see everything that goes on sometimes as we enter a platform, and always as we depart. Besides it take only the slightest of pressure on a 92's doors to lose door proving anyway........ If the sensitive edges cannot be make to work on the deep level tubes, then the great master plan of The EVOstuck will come unglued. And ultimately that's what it's all about.............
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Post by trt on Mar 15, 2012 11:40:00 GMT
I would like to see some solution to detecting bodies too close to the train side, as it could be used to combat train tagging. Mind you, given the incredible disregard passengers have for standing behind the yellow line, I can't see how that tech would work.
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,317
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Post by Colin on Mar 15, 2012 11:51:24 GMT
I cannot, recall any dragging incidents on any of the modern stocks ( 92/95/96 ) in recent times. The most high profile of recent one's occurred on the Northern line, with 95ts, at Tooting Broadway on 1st November 2007 - RAIB report - the driver only became aware, despite having in cab CCTV, when he was pulled down.......and even then he still wasn't aware till he walked back. Within that report is a table which clearly shows 64 dragging incidents over 9 years, 7 a year on average. 21 of those were on the Northern line!! Elsewhere in the report it states there were 3 fatalities due to dragging incidents between 1990 & 2007 - I can well imagine someone saying that's acceptable, but that's 3 too many IMO. And whilst there are a couple of paragraphs that justify the whole dragging issue by quoting the likelihood of it happening - ie, you've got more chance of winning the national lottery - the report does acknowledge that the Northern line, even with in cab CCTV, has a higher than average dragging rate compared to all other LU lines. As you quite rightly say, the deep level tubes are "banged out" - so that must mean the ability to see the PTI is therefore diminished and this technology is actually more important. Or am I missing something obvious with that statement?
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Post by trt on Mar 15, 2012 11:57:40 GMT
Passenger alarms on the outside? Maybe rewiring the defunct door open buttons?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 12:02:01 GMT
Mind you, the 09TS sensitive edge debacle was predictable. Why didn't they take the advice offered by some of us practical folk and drop the whole expensive idea? Thing is, the EVOstuck-away-with-the-fairies-accountant's-wet-dream-tube-train-of-the-future depends on the sensitive edge idea for it to work. The Tube's too banged out for most of the day for it to work. It's a daft idea, a bit like asking your mum to put on the carrots over a train's PA.......... What a shame it is to see people of the calibre of you two dismissing such an important new technology. And one that will save lives too. I'm sure you're both well aware of the Holborn dragging incident many years ago - whilst we've thankfully not seen a repeat of it to date, it will happen again one day - you two are quite happy to sit there and justify not fitting this new technology that will save a life one day? I'm not that naive - I do know that somewhere along the way somebody will quote the price of a life and say the cost versus life ratio justifies leaving it on the shelf, but are you seriously that dismissive of it? Just like that, off the cuff, it's a straight "we should never have gone there"? Actually, what price is a life? There's bound to be a few hiccups along the way - anything that's new is bound to have it's teething issues; if you think otherwise you must be bonkers. As was pointed out in the programme, nobody really thought to consider that there might be a difference based upon whether the resisting force would inside or outside, nor that the difference was actually quite important. This technology was well known about on this very forum long before the first train was built, yet nobody here posted any concerns - it's very easy to criticise from our armchairs when none of us are actually experts!! And on the face of it £3million does seem steep, but in railway terms that's actually quite cheap for a modification across a fleet of 40 odd 8 car trains. And now that this technology is better understood, that money will pay for itself in the long term. I don't disagree that it is a good new technology that will possibly save lives. Studies at the start of the project did quite clearly show that sensitive edge was not cost beneficial for the victoria line application (with an in cab CCTV and against the pushback door system), and that study did not account for the level of failures (and resulting lost revenue) that is being observed by the system, so was optimistic in that respect. This is not to say that it will not be a necessity for a future driverless train. The cost as it stands, with modifications etc. that have been made to the original system (some reliability fixes, and some to improve the operability of the system), is far in excess of the £3m quoted on the program. My feeling though, now that the system has undergone the development that is has (once the next round of changes is completed), and operators and customers have learnt about the system is that resultant delays will come down to a much more manageable level. As pointed out by auxsetreq, I think it will cause far less disruption on S Stock - we'll see when they start running through Victoria. With the Victoria Line having been the development project for the system, it should be much easier and cheaper to implement the system on future new rolling stock (with all the lessons learnt from Victoria Line experience incorporated from the start). I suppose one project always has to be the guinea pig for anything new.
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