BTH Controls Pre-1938 Reverser

IIRC the standard stock used the same reverser key as everything else on the Underground. a trip to the Isle of Wight may provide the answer.

The KESR Ford diesel loco uses the same BTH control turret and keys as tube stock!

There ain't no Standards left on the IoW but all the BTH controllers used the same sort of reverser key and those trains equipped by MV and GEC had to have the same design too.

im sure we use these type of key to undo the trainstop lids on the H type i have one in my bag it looks very simular

Thanks for the replies Tubeprune and DistrictSOM
I'm just wondering if the key was flat in appearance and the rounded part that fitted over the spigot could not be withdrawn in the forward and reverse position because the handle of the key was right up against the surround casting preventing the rounded part being removed off the spigot

Looking at this pic there are definately rusty wear marks at the edges of the surround casting where the key has been up against it.

viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=262474874&albumID=1398694&imageID=19482508

Thanks Roythebus.
It sounds like the pins either side were there to captivate the key in the on position. Do all stocks still use these keys or what were they used up to.
Darren.

mrfs, I don't know what the D is for, possibly deicing, but I doubt that standard stock was fitted with de-icing equipment. That's what the ex CLR motor cars were for!

Standard reverser/control keys were used up till C69 stock; certainly on Q, R, A, 38ts, 59/60 etc TS and Victoria line stock. Also the ESL ex CLR locos, ESL118A+B, IIRC Sarah Siddons and battery locos.

Somewhere I've got an 8mm cine film (nudge nudge wink wink) of a cab ride in a standard stock on the IoW taken by me in about 1968. Whether that shows the reverser I don't know.

There were also at least two types of contoller used, some had an additional button in the middle of the deadman's handle which had to be depressed too. what is was for I can't remember. Standard stock had the A type EP brake, same as the Q stock.

Something seems to make me think with the button depressed the handle went round for another turn for weak field? Anyone older than me out there might just know!

The numbers are a modern substitute. I have no idea where the D came from but they never used them as set numbers on any Underground line.

The brake handle looks good, but my first impression is that there is something not quite right about the top of the controller. The control handle looks a little bit too big in relation to the top of the controller to me (or vica versa) - but I may be mistaken.
The control key is wrong. I will try to dig mine out and photograph it for you. Do not get confused by the key with round pins either side. That key was for the guards panel and did not fit the controller.
I think (repeat think) that the first keys were like flat spanners and could be removed under certain conditions without the key being fully in the central position.
What I do know is that a modification was made to the top of some of these controller and a bar was added across the gap that the key slides into to form a complete circle. The reverser key had a projection on the top that was curved on one side. The key slid underneath the bar and through a groove in it. Because the groove was narrower than the original gap, the key locked into position as soon as it moved, while the top of the bar prevented it from being lifted upwards.
This bar was included in the design of the casings fitted over the keys on 1938TS and I am pretty certain that it was retrofitted to some Standard Stock - although I cannot be 100% sure and I do not have a date. Maybe tp can help?
The reason that the bar is relevant to this discussion is that once it was fitted, all reverser keys obviously had to have the projection on the top as they were interchangeable between stock. Thus if you see a reverser key placed into a slot such as the one illustrated here viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=262474874&albumID=1398694&imageID=19482508 you will notice that the projection on the key does not actually do anything and you might incorrectly assume that it is the wrong key for the stock: it is not.

Are you describing the rigid type of control handle that did not spring up and down? The button was the 'dead man'.

The rvereseer key fitted the reverser (obviously) and also opened the DBVIC. The motorman also had a control key to turn on the low voltage supply. This key had pins protruding either side.

The guard had a similar key with pins protruding either side to open up his panel. The R stock guard had an additional key with offset pins to work the door control until they were replaced with panels from withdrawn Q stock, but I digress...

The GEC controllers with the centre button could well be the deadman on the button. Some of the ESLs had them.

The pins were more commonly known as LUGS.

OK Guys.
I've now completed the alterations as per comments and the photographs I've received from Neil. The new reverser key is actually textured with one of his photographs. See what you think.

God, Your so picky Roy
Seriously, I was only showing the movement of the reverser but your right, the throttle would have to have been depressed to unlock the reverser. Isn't this the case for all tube stocks to prevent current being applied to the motors, instantly when the reverser is moved.

I will have to do another video as the cab is almost completed around the controller in that video.

Hi,

If it helps I have a complete set of cab equipment so can take any detail aquipment photos you may need?