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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2006 18:17:35 GMT
Anyone know why there had to be a 20mph speed limit imposed (briefly) today all the way from Bromley-by-Bow to Upminster, both roads? I heard it was something to do with the rails being too warm. Not exactly sweltering today! And after about half an hour all returned to normal.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2006 19:44:10 GMT
the p-way must do inspections reguarly in warm weather around the mid day time to make sure especially in long welded rail sites that the rails do not buckle if i remember it was either last year or the year before but around the east ham area the rails had totally buckled and it was so bad they actually susspended the service
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 3, 2006 21:55:55 GMT
It was due to a combination of rail temperatures and unstressed track.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2006 1:23:22 GMT
Any ideas for the even more restrictive 10mph from WM20 towards Ealing Broadway?
I WISH they would actually advertise these new restrictions. I've discussed this with my LSM before, but as usual nowt happens.
How can you put a 10mph restriction in place without giving the drivers advance notice rather than suddenly seeing flashing lights in the four foot?
There should at least be a notice at the previous station advising there is a new TSR in place.
If the practice of putting in TSRs with no warnings to the drivers happened on the mainline, the HSE would have a fit! How do they get away with it on LU?
(Sorry - rant over!!)
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 4, 2006 4:48:10 GMT
There was a notice at Ealing Common on Tuesday night - I must admit though, I dunno if it was still there last night   ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2006 16:25:44 GMT
From TfL website: Details District DISTRICT LINE: Severe delays are occurring due to temporary speed restrictions. Message received 2:03pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hammersmith & City HAMMERSMITH & CITY LINE: Suspended between Liverpool Street and Barking due to temporary speed restrictions in the Bromley By Bow area. Message received 2:05pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Metropolitan METROPOLITAN LINE: Suspended between Moorgate and Aldgate due to temporary speed restrictions. Message received 2:06pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well - it is all due to the possible overheated rails problem? Don't quite understand why the H&C are suspended from Liverpool Street > Barking , or the Met between Moorgate > Aldgate, when the Circle / District are running..... Is it to do with not holding up the Circles (about the Met / H&C ? ) |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2006 16:53:43 GMT
metronet fails again « Thread Started on Today at 4:35pm » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- will they ever be able to do a propper job if this is what happends now whats going to happen in the height of summer Speed restrictions imposed on Tube network after Metronet fails to carry out routine works Speed restrictions are being imposed across the Tube network after a failure by Metronet Rail SSL to carry out routine track work to cope with summer temperatures. Check the realtime travel pages for the latest information. Why should Londoners put up with this? Peter Hendy TfL's Transport Commissioner This is a standard rail industry activity to allow for expansion due to heat. 20mph speed restrictions, to ensure safe running of trains, are currently in place on sections of the District, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan and Piccadilly lines. The areas most affected are the east and west ends of the District line, the north end of the Metropolitan line and the west end of the Piccadilly line. Peter Hendy, Commissioner of Transport for London (TfL), said: "This is the latest in a series of inexcusable failures by Metronet. "Why should Londoners put up with this? "We're not even in a heat wave yet. This is simply poor management and planning. "The reputation of Metronet's shareholders - Atkins, Balfour Beatty, Bombardier Transportation, EDF Energy and Thames Water - are being severely damaged by their association with this shambles. "The consortium's shareholders will have to step in and sort out this dreadful mess." London Underground management is holding talks with Metronet to learn how they plan to rectify this latest series of failures, and to ensure London Underground does not face similar problems throughout the spring and summer. Passengers should call 020 7222 1234 or check online at www.tfl.gov.uk for the latest information before travelling and allow extra time for their journeys. Metronet Rail SSL is responsible for the renewal and maintenance of the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan and East London lines. It is also responsible for the maintenance of the Piccadilly line between Hammersmith and Acton Town. Ends Notes for editors TfL is investing £10bn over the next five years to improve and expand London's transport network, more than half of that in the Tube as we work to Transform the Tube. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2006 17:05:04 GMT
*Sigh* Bloody metronet...... sums it up quite nicely I think!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2006 18:02:18 GMT
And now they're saying it could be weeks before it's all sorted out! Metronet bod on the local news wouldn't commit, but said they would work on it at the weekend. I heard it could be 6 weeks.  |
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Post by edb on May 4, 2006 18:35:57 GMT
Can someone answer me a few questions?
Is track buckling in hot weather a new Phenomenon? I and people i speak to dont remember hearing about it years ago.
Is the problem worse with the advent of continuously welded rail?
What is prestressing and what does it actually do and how do you do it?
Any answers greatly appreciated My other half is a stressed DL/Picc passenger i would like to let her know what is happening to her service.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2006 19:04:13 GMT
Don't quite understand why the H&C are suspended from Liverpool Street > Barking , or the Met between Moorgate > Aldgate, when the Circle / District are running..... Is it to do with not holding up the Circles (about the Met / H&C ? ) I'm assuming that the H&Cs are being diverted into the bay platforms in Aldgate, hence no service is advertised from Liverpool Street, which is strictly true, but in reality they are being diverted to Aldgate instead of Barking. As the Mets usually reverse in the Aldgate bay platforms, they are then terminated at Moorgate bay platforms instead. |
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Post by delticdave on May 4, 2006 19:33:50 GMT
Anyone know why there had to be a 20mph speed limit imposed (briefly) today all the way from Bromley-by-Bow to Upminster, both roads? I heard it was something to do with the rails being too warm. Not exactly sweltering today! And after about half an hour all returned to normal. according to the news tonight, it was 81 degrees in east anglia today, so i suspect it was hot on the rails. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 4, 2006 19:42:54 GMT
Can someone answer me a few questions? Is track buckling in hot weather a new Phenomenon? I and people i speak to dont remember hearing about it years ago. Is the problem worse with the advent of continuously welded rail? What is prestressing and what does it actually do and how do you do it? Any answers greatly appreciated My other half is a stressed DL/Picc passenger i would like to let her know what is happening to her service. There are certain activities which need to be carried out before summer and winter each year in order to allow for hot/cold weather conditions. It appears that parties external to LU have not carried out those activities. It will be little consolation to your wife but LU are working to resolve this with said external parties as a matter of urgency. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2006 19:53:21 GMT
Trad track with fshplates needs the bolts removed and greased also for expansion purposes - none of this is rocket science - just good pre-emptive maintenance.
Surely ?
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Post by agoodcuppa on May 4, 2006 20:07:45 GMT
LU are working to resolve this with said external parties as a matter of urgency. Hopefully large heavy footwear is being applied to certain delicate parts of some people's anatomies. I feel sure that the men on the ground know that this job has to be done. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 5, 2006 2:01:17 GMT
The pre-stressing was briefly explained to me, and goes something like this:
Take a section of track and start at the middle point between two expansion joints. Take out a few 'keys', and run a few trains over the said section of track. Replace the 'keys', then do the next piece of track in the same manner, working out to the expansion joints. This process allows the track to 'settle & stretch' so that when the hot weather cause's it to expand, it still has "room to move". Without doing this process, as the track expands in hot weather, it will buckle as there is no "room to move". A slightly different process is carried out for winter, this preventing the rails from cracking as they 'shrink'.
I have a source who said it may take up to six weeks to sort out too - but he went further and suggested Metronet may have been aware that pre-stressing was not being done as far back as last November.
In any case, as a driver I am some what concerned - we are driving at normal line speed when the sun is less intense; but how safe is the track?
And the Unions? Well seeing as they've remained quiet on this issue, cocked up the Acton dispute and are likely to agree the ridiculous bonus scheme pay offer (as well as umpteen other reasons) - they can consider me an ex-member!!
[/mini rant]
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Harsig
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Post by Harsig on May 5, 2006 9:04:17 GMT
Don't quite understand why the H&C are suspended from Liverpool Street > Barking , or the Met between Moorgate > Aldgate, when the Circle / District are running..... Is it to do with not holding up the Circles (about the Met / H&C ? ) As the Mets usually reverse in the Aldgate bay platforms, they are then terminated at Moorgate bay platforms instead. Although in fact the reason the Mets terminated at Moorgate was more likely to be because of late running caused by speed restrictions on the open sections of the Met (e.g. 20mph both roads Harrow to Uxbridge) Remember during the off peak all Aldgate services come from Uxbridge. Of course this had the happy effect of leaving the bay platforms at Aldgate free for the H&C service, doubly lucky as there are currently certain issues with C stock using one of the bay platforms at Moorgate. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 12:25:54 GMT
Of course this had the happy effect of leaving the bay platforms at Aldgate free for the H&C service, doubly lucky as there are currently certain issues with C stock using one of the bay platforms at Moorgate. Whats that issue then? I have also heard that this weekend there will be a short notice suspension between Barking and Upminster, to allow Metronet to resolve the problem. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 5, 2006 12:36:27 GMT
Of course this had the happy effect of leaving the bay platforms at Aldgate free for the H&C service, doubly lucky as there are currently certain issues with C stock using one of the bay platforms at Moorgate. Whats that issue then? I have also heard that this weekend there will be a short notice suspension between Barking and Upminster, to allow Metronet to resolve the problem. Yes the District Line is shut between Barking & Upminster on Saturday and Sunday this weekend, Buses will run every 7 mins, good news for lads who drive buses when off duty from them D stocks ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 12:53:31 GMT
As the Mets usually reverse in the Aldgate bay platforms, they are then terminated at Moorgate bay platforms instead. Although in fact the reason the Mets terminated at Moorgate was more likely to be because of late running caused by speed restrictions on the open sections of the Met (e.g. 20mph both roads Harrow to Uxbridge) Remember during the off peak all Aldgate services come from Uxbridge. Of course this had the happy effect of leaving the bay platforms at Aldgate free for the H&C service, doubly lucky as there are currently certain issues with C stock using one of the bay platforms at Moorgate. Funnily enough this emergency arrangement is exactly what is going to happen in January of next year. There will be a weekend of engineering work around Tower Hill, which will require the suspension of services around the Tower Hill/Aldgate East area. The HNCs will be diverted into the Aldgate bay platforms to reverse, the Mets will reverse in the Moorgate bay platforms, and the Circles will be suspended. So you've had some unintentional experience already!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 17:57:24 GMT
Should be fun for the fans travelling to Upton Park, but maybe Metronet will have finished by then. Where are the Metronet workforce / managers sourced from - are they ex-LU or railway ?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 18:08:40 GMT
I can see some heads rolling at Metronet over this!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 18:31:02 GMT
This is (I hope!) going to cost Metronet an absolute fortune in penalty payments to LU. On a personal note, I have an 8 hour turn tomorrow, so I'm hoping I might something out of it. |
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Post by c5 on May 5, 2006 22:48:23 GMT
Of course this had the happy effect of leaving the bay platforms at Aldgate free for the H&C service, doubly lucky as there are currently certain issues with C stock using one of the bay platforms at Moorgate. Whats that issue then? Its to do with the OPO equipment used on one of the bay roads. Station staff are required to assist departures because of it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 23:04:05 GMT
I have an 8 hour turn tomorrow i wasant aware that district line drivers worked for that long ? ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 23:06:57 GMT
Ahh - I see Seniorpicc has decided to start off the old Green / Blue rivalry again ;D ;D ;D You could cut the tension with a knife couldn't you??? |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 23:10:59 GMT
speaking of which , the wonderful blue line was asked to help out the old green line yesterday as it couldnt cope with the tsr's , hence us going down the local in both directions to aleviate the congestion, so i say to all you wonderful green line drivers >>> where would you be without us to bale you out ? ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2006 23:54:42 GMT
So, did you do a District's service then for a bit? Or was it non-stopping?
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Post by citysig on May 6, 2006 12:53:57 GMT
Its to do with the OPO equipment used on one of the bay roads. Station staff are required to assist departures because of it. Which, according to 2 separate Station Supervisors I spoke to on Thursday, no longer stands as the equipment has been repaired. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2006 14:57:11 GMT
On annual leave this week, so not benefiting from all this chaos  Back tomoz, so hope the emergency engineering works will benefit me ! Some trips as a passenger have been exasperating to say the least. The 20 mph from Upminster to Bromley-By-Bow have resulted in some very laborious journies. Hornchurh to Mile End taking an hour rather than 30 mins. On one occasion the driver announced (at Becontree) the restriction was being lifted (the sun had gone down), so I remained aboard at Barking, but a crew relief saw the train resume 20mph the rest of the way (station notices also commanding the 20mph still). Drivers running so late, I've noticed short workings from Upminster - East Ham and Upminster - Upney, some trains running in the 30x series of "special working" numbers. It is correct the H & C were reversing at Aldgate (I saw one arrive at Barking bay and another odd one out east - perhaps they were up for crew reliefs?), displacing the Met's to Moorgate. But the Met was in such chaos, most of them seemed to have been stabled! A 40 min wait at Harrow on Thurs yielded just three n/b trains, two Watford semis and a Watford all stations. The station staff were getting real abuse  With today's emergency suspension Upminster - Barking (I wasn't asked to drive a rail bus this week ) I saw an awful lot of p'way workers on the track around and either side of the expansion joint just east of Elm Park w/b, our trains have been seriously "kicking" there, a few months back i phoned the L/C telling him I thought my train was going to jump the track. The Emergency Response Unit came down and put a tsr in, when it was lifted the track was a bit better but far from perfect - you still have to hold on to your cup of tea there or it'll go over !! ;D ;D ;D |
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