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Post by nodds on Jan 5, 2009 7:07:41 GMT
Hi all,I am a Picc line driver currently on the waiting list
for a transfer to Ricky.A met driver has told me that a
new depot will be opening at Harrow on the Hill.I was just wondering how this will affect Rickmansworth depot.Will some drivers be forced to move to Harrow,will there be less bodies needed at Ricky??Anyone out there got any info?
Thanks in advance.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 5, 2009 8:14:51 GMT
New depot at Harrow? First I've heard! Neasden is being upgraded to take an enlarged fleet of trains for all SSL lines. Ricky will remain as a crew depot as far as I know.
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Post by upfast on Jan 5, 2009 9:07:05 GMT
New depot at Harrow? First I've heard! Neasden is being upgraded to take an enlarged fleet of trains for all SSL lines. Ricky will remain as a crew depot as far as I know. There will be a new Train Operations Depot at Harrow. |
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Post by nodds on Jan 5, 2009 11:21:23 GMT
It was a crew depot that I meant,sorry for any confusion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 12:11:12 GMT
From what I can gather, the new crew depot will be in a temporary location at first, and then the permanent one will open later. I think an office block near the station is in the frame at the moment, but it's just something I have heard.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 5, 2009 13:26:16 GMT
Just to clarify (and not for my benefit as it's the wrong part of London!) - there was a rumour once upon a time of South Harrow depot re-opening.........so are we confusing Harrow on the Hill with South Harrow, or are they both in the frame?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 5, 2009 14:03:13 GMT
I heard something about this from a mate of mine on the met. New crew depot definitely at Harrow on the Hill; someone on here mentioned south harrow being reopened but haven't heard anything about that in RL.
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Post by citysig on Jan 5, 2009 16:06:22 GMT
Yes new Train Crew depots at Harrow-on-the-Hill for the Met and (an improved) Hammersmith one - located on land to the rear of the signal cabin. Both new depots will become the "principal" depots for their respective lines.
Hammersmith has the new service in mind, with all drivers being located in a depot that is close to where they need to be i.e. near to the front of the trains they need to pick up - meaning last minute changes to trains will see a driver on the front much quicker than at present.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 5, 2009 19:22:05 GMT
Hammersmith one - located on land to the rear of the signal cabin. Hammersmith has the new service in mind, with all drivers being located in a depot that is close to where they need to be i.e. near to the front of the trains they need to pick up - meaning last minute changes to trains will see a driver on the front much quicker than at present. And of course that'll mean they can then extend the platforms towards the booking hall for S7's.......  ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by citysig on Jan 5, 2009 19:55:49 GMT
You cynic. No, I have heard that the new depot will be behind the cabin, in an area that would not obstruct an extension one way or another to the platforms. I can see it now. New depot at the eastern end of the platforms. Then they extend the platforms in an easterly direction, leaving the new depot 3 cars down the platform ;D
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 5, 2009 20:46:22 GMT
That is the current situation!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:31:24 GMT
Hi all,I am a Picc line driver currently on the waiting list for a transfer to Ricky.A met driver has told me that a new depot will be opening at Harrow on the Hill.I was just wondering how this will affect Rickmansworth depot.Will some drivers be forced to move to Harrow,will there be less bodies needed at Ricky??Anyone out there got any info? Thanks in advance. The PT&R agreements mean that any Met driver will have first choice on places at the new depot, followed by anyone on the combine if there is a shortfall. In your case as their is already a waiting list for Ricky I would imagine the list might go down very slightly, but will still remain. Enjoy the Picc you are likely to be their for some time yet ;D |
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Post by nodds on Jan 6, 2009 7:49:45 GMT
Looks like i'll have to !!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 13:24:21 GMT
Ricky is not being downsized i understand.
Have you thought of doing a geographical move to Neasden.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 19:24:22 GMT
Depending on where you are on the Ricky list, depends on how long you will have to wait. If you have been on the list for a longtime, you might get to Ricky within this year. If you have just put your name down recently, the rumours are true, it's deadmans shoes, will take you a very longtime. If it's the Met you want, personally I would apply for Neasden/Harrow-on-the-Hill aswell.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 6, 2009 20:11:42 GMT
I don't get it. Why have a new crew depot at Harrow? It's in the middle of the line and there's nowhere to put a train if there's no relief, except up the siding. Once one is in there you're stuffed. Will they keep reliefs at Wembley then? If so, how long will it be before someone gets a duty where they get on at WPk N and off at HN? Or, a Neasden T/O arrives at HN and there's no relief and one up the siding and they're out of time. Then it's all the way to Uxbridge or Watford and back.
This is not a good idea.
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 6, 2009 20:18:47 GMT
Or, a Neasden T/O arrives at HN and there's no relief and one up the siding and they're out of time. Then it's all the way to Uxbridge or Watford and back. Why would it have to go to Uxbridge or Watford? Trains can terminate at Rayners Lane or Northwood. And couldn't a train be taken to Northwood and go into the siding there? |
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Post by upfast on Jan 6, 2009 20:20:40 GMT
I don't get it. Why have a new crew depot at Harrow? It's in the middle of the line and there's nowhere to put a train if there's no relief, except up the siding. Once one is in there you're stuffed. Will they keep reliefs at Wembley then? If so, how long will it be before someone gets a duty where they get on at WPk N and off at HN? Or, a Neasden T/O arrives at HN and there's no relief and one up the siding and they're out of time. Then it's all the way to Uxbridge or Watford and back. This is not a good idea. Does this sound like Edgware Road to you TP? |
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Post by Colin on Jan 6, 2009 21:09:13 GMT
I can't see the issue personally.
I know you advocate depots being at the ends of a line tubeprune, but then you can't short trip late runners.....
As things currently stand on the Met, all trains stop at Harrow on the Hill - not all trains stop at Wembley Park.........surely it makes sense to have crew reliefs in the best place for the whole service?
Also as things stand currently, there is only one end of line depot on the Met, at Uxbridge. It's managed perfectly well so far without a depot at any other terminus. And with the exception of the physical train stabling depot, we are talking about shifting the bulk of mid day crew reliefs a few stops up the line - it's hardly a doomsday situation.
The effect of having a depot at Harrow on the Hill is to the Met what Earls Court is to the District. In fact the Met is in a better position by virtue of having a siding at the same location - the District really is screwed if theres no driver available at Earls Court.
All that being said though, there ought to be enough drivers floating around such that a reform will easily take care of a train with no driver - the biggest likely headache is a train sitting down with a defect.......and that can happen any time anywhere.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 6, 2009 21:15:56 GMT
I don't get it. Why have a new crew depot at Harrow? It's in the middle of the line and there's nowhere to put a train if there's no relief, except up the siding. Once one is in there you're stuffed. Will they keep reliefs at Wembley then? If so, how long will it be before someone gets a duty where they get on at WPk N and off at HN? Or, a Neasden T/O arrives at HN and there's no relief and one up the siding and they're out of time. Then it's all the way to Uxbridge or Watford and back. This is not a good idea. Does this sound like Edgware Road to you TP? Yes indeed. |
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 6, 2009 21:20:56 GMT
Colin, I understand your points but I cannot see the logic of putting another depot in at Harrow when you already have one 10 minutes away at Wembley/Neasden.
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Post by astock5000 on Jan 6, 2009 22:49:25 GMT
the District really is screwed if theres no driver available at Earls Court. Wouldn't the train be taken to the sidings at Parsons Green by the driver who was driving it, where passengers can see it and complain that it is not running in service? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 23:49:06 GMT
Colin, I understand your points but I cannot see the logic of putting another depot in at Harrow when you already have one 10 minutes away at Wembley/Neasden. Perhaps we are not seeing the big picture here, sure we have depots at Neasden and Rickmansworth both of which are within 15 mins of Harrow. But who says that Neasden will remain as a traincrew depot, a depot where the service normally passes by, subject to a t/op hitching a lift or the usual signal failure. T/op's traveling by Jubilee to Wembley Park when not working out of the depot don't make for the most efficient use of resources. Also Rickmansworth having to send t/op's to Uxbridge by minibus to start up the morning service from the sidings, not the most efficient use again. Harrow does make some sense when all trains stop at Harrow and there just happens to be a redundant building adjacent to the station with access to the subway connecting all platforms. We also have 3 N/B and 2 S/B platforms and the siding as mentioned previously to help minimize delays but then it don't always work with a depot a the end of the line. |
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Post by ruislip on Jan 7, 2009 0:20:22 GMT
Or, a Neasden T/O arrives at HN and there's no relief and one up the siding and they're out of time. Then it's all the way to Uxbridge or Watford and back. Why would it have to go to Uxbridge ? Trains can terminate at Rayners Lane . But that could be a problem, as Piccadilly line trains reverse there. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 7, 2009 9:34:05 GMT
Piccs have a bit of redundancy though because they can turn at South Harrow too, I would have thought?
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Post by citysig on Jan 7, 2009 16:15:38 GMT
I don't get it. Why have a new crew depot at Harrow? It's in the middle of the line and there's nowhere to put a train if there's no relief, except up the siding. Once one is in there you're stuffed. Will they keep reliefs at Wembley then? If so, how long will it be before someone gets a duty where they get on at WPk N and off at HN? Or, a Neasden T/O arrives at HN and there's no relief and one up the siding and they're out of time. Then it's all the way to Uxbridge or Watford and back. This is not a good idea. On the cards is extra recruitment of drivers (though with the current financial situation, this could now be reduced). The idea is to have drivers in a central location, at a major MET line station. Currently, you have DMTs at Harrow, a DMT for the Met at Wembley, and another at Neasden - with drivers milling around anywhere between Neasden and Wembley Park. Why should a half decent idea, that would benefit the service, be scrapped to suit the rare (and it is fairly rare on the Met) occasion when there is absolutely nobody to drive a train. Edgware Road was mentioned as being a bad idea - when in fact prior to that depot, where were trains without relief at Baker Street sent? There are no sidings at all at Baker Street. There comes a point where things have to be planned for the overall benefit of the service, and not planned around the small amount of occasions where things don't work out. If the underground had been built around such planning, there would be sidings and crossovers at every station. |
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Post by peanuts on Jan 7, 2009 16:51:58 GMT
Agree with MetControl there.
HOH offers resilience as well as a greater deal of flexibility. Also, and as importantly - the shops are a whole lot better than Wembley and or Neasden !
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 7, 2009 17:21:29 GMT
I'm afraid that ideal world hasn't come to London Underground yet, much as many would love it to. There are never enough drivers, most of the Met reforms are done on pickups. If there is no pickup on anything, and a train is sat in the platform with no driver, it won't be going anywhere. And it's the same on any other line - reforms done with pick ups are always the first choice...........using a spare to start reforms off is an option, but certainly isn't popular. I suppose I didn't make myself too clear, but I reckon we're are in agreement. Wouldn't the train be taken to the sidings at Parsons Green by the driver who was driving it, where passengers can see it and complain that it is not running in service? No - that would mean the driver is then possibly: - On forced overtime (against the rules!)
- Over their hours (again against the rules)
- Having a late meal relief which then means they can't pick up the next train on time
- Finishing so late that minimum rest periods may mean they'll book on late the next day
Such a train would have to be 'put away' by a spare driver - so reforming it into something else using a driver that is due to pick up his/her next train would be the best use of resources. Actually, thinking about it.......it is possible the original driver could put it away themselves - if they are due off on the eastbound but it's known well in advance that there'll be no relief, it'd be put away on it's westbound journey leaving enough time for the driver to then get back to Earls Court. |
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Post by upfast on Jan 7, 2009 17:53:30 GMT
I'm afraid that ideal world hasn't come to London Underground yet, much as many would love it to. There are never enough drivers, most of the Met reforms are done on pickups. If there is no pickup on anything, and a train is sat in the platform with no driver, it won't be going anywhere. And it's the same on any other line - reforms done with pick ups are always the first choice...........using a spare to start reforms off is an option, but certainly isn't popular. I suppose I didn't make myself too clear, but I reckon we're are in agreement. Wouldn't the train be taken to the sidings at Parsons Green by the driver who was driving it, where passengers can see it and complain that it is not running in service? No - that would mean the driver is then possibly: - On forced overtime (against the rules!)
- Over their hours (again against the rules)
- Having a late meal relief which then means they can't pick up the next train on time
- Finishing so late that minimum rest periods may mean they'll book on late the next day
Such a train would have to be 'put away' by a spare driver - so reforming it into something else using a driver that is due to pick up his/her next train would be the best use of resources. Actually, thinking about it.......it is possible the original driver could put it away themselves - if they are due off on the eastbound but it's known well in advance that there'll be no relief, it'd be put away on it's westbound journey leaving enough time for the driver to then get back to Earls Court. COLIN, I'm 99% sure (but without referring to the PTOA) that the Train Op who gets off would have to then stable the train at the nearest depot or siding if no relief is available. The train can't just be left on a running line. |
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Post by Colin on Jan 7, 2009 18:08:42 GMT
Well it's happened often enough in the past ;D ;D ;D
Mind you, the worst I've known is a train screwed down for 20 minutes in platform 3 at Earls Court, with the rest worked round it via platform 4 - in the vast majority of cases though, a solution is usually found one way or another.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
