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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 7, 2008 18:25:11 GMT
Hi guys, Do all trains that terminate at Seven Sisters go to Nothumberland Park Depot? If not,what do they do? Thanks Uzair  |
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Post by astock5000 on Jul 7, 2008 18:45:59 GMT
Don't some trains reverse in the tunnel that goes to the Depot?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 7, 2008 19:00:09 GMT
Yes,I believe they're called 62 & 63rds.It's only about every 4th train that carries on to Northumberland Pk,apart from stabling times of course.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2008 19:25:43 GMT
IIRC the ones that go to Northumberland Park have a yellow dot next to the destination shown on the blind and are used as staff trains into the depot.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 7, 2008 21:14:53 GMT
That is indeed true - 62 road is 'right line' to depot and used for both reversing and staff trains; 63 road is wrong line and has a fixed red light on it, 115' from VL22A - with VL22A and VL22B controlling moves from Northumberland Park back into Seven Sisters.
62 road has either VL7 (A1007, a *very* long time ago) controlling movements into the Depot or VL20 controlling reversing movements back into Seven Sisters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 21:57:14 GMT
Off peak the trains that terminate at Seven Sisters run up to depot as staff trains. During the peak there are scheduled 62/63rd reversers.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jul 8, 2008 22:24:10 GMT
Unfortunately I left the Victoria Line before all the service enhancements,in the 70's the service was Brixton-Seven Sisters every 2mins,Walthamstow every 4 mins,off peak Walthamstow every 8 mins,Seven Sisters every 4 mins with a staff approx every 30 mins.The service was in effect split in two Brixton-Walthamstow & Brixton-Seven Sisters-Victoria-King's Cross-Brixton.Also in those days a train was stabled in 22 sdg at Brixton between the peaks.
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Post by maxtube on Jul 20, 2008 15:48:09 GMT
I think occasionally a Northbound Vic terminates at Kings Cross. It is also possible to make a Southbound terminate at Victoria.
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Post by trc666 on Jul 20, 2008 16:43:49 GMT
You can reverse at the following intermediate locations on the Victoria.
SEVEN SISTERS
Shunt via 62/63 road or reverse within Northumberland Park Depot. As mentioned earlier in the thread.
HIGHBURY
Trailing crossover north of the station. Trains either reverse directly off the southbound platform to go towards Walthamstow, or do a shunt out of service from north to south to go towards Brixton.
KING'S CROSS
Reversing siding north of the station.
WARREN STREET
Trailing crossover north of the station. Rarely used.
VICTORIA
Trailing crossover north of the station. Reversing sidings south of the station.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2008 6:21:27 GMT
I have to say that Seven Sisters has a very good track design. The extra track for taking trains out of service is now pretty invaluable given the tipping out rules which weren't in place when the Victoria Line was constructed. If Seven Sisters had just been built with two tracks, then the Victoria Line would have severe problems running the current 28.5tph. The scissors crossover on the depot tracks also gives flexibility for reversing trains, and for running trains to and from the depot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2008 8:36:53 GMT
I have to say that Seven Sisters has a very good track design. The extra track for taking trains out of service is now pretty invaluable given the tipping out rules which weren't in place when the Victoria Line was constructed. If Seven Sisters had just been built with two tracks, then the Victoria Line would have severe problems running the current 28.5tph. The scissors crossover on the depot tracks also gives flexibility for reversing trains, and for running trains to and from the depot. It would be even better if you could get trains to depot from platform 3 though. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 22, 2008 19:32:26 GMT
Good thought, but isn't the IMR almost full; and wouldn't the other end of the new crossover either land slap bang in the middle of the 13/14 scissors or attach to the tail end of 15 (complicating the trapping arrangements) and the disengaging of the feed sets be horribly awkward?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 22, 2008 21:01:09 GMT
Disengaging the Feed Sets isn't the hardest part of it - you'd just need more of them and some more TYR circuits.
The worst bit is that the IMR is fairly full - a feasibility study was sone a few years ago into making both depot roads bi-directional (with the idea that one could be turned over for use as a test track off-peak) - the locking changes and work needed to free up levers was a contributing factor in the scheme's downfall.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 23, 2008 0:03:36 GMT
If only 'V' frames were made in increments of 5. You'd then have the space for a release, a crossover (exclusive of trap) and, if needed, a further route lever. There'd be a significant amount of conditionals with the current number! |
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Post by programmes1 on Jul 23, 2008 1:38:03 GMT
The only spare shaft is 3 so almost full some years ago the PM's could cope for test trains north end only but that did not entail bi-directional working. The original plan for the Vic if IIRC was for a branch to Enfield with a junction at Seven Sisters so one would have thought they would have had a larger frame they would have been able to include the move from Plat 3 mind you the operating dept revised there wants quite a lot on the Vic.
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Post by ruislip on Jul 23, 2008 4:15:49 GMT
Unfortunately I left the Victoria Line before all the service enhancements,in the 70's the service was Brixton-Seven Sisters every 2mins,Walthamstow every 4 mins,off peak Walthamstow every 8 mins,Seven Sisters every 4 mins with a staff approx every 30 mins.The service was in effect split in two Brixton-Walthamstow & Brixton-Seven Sisters-Victoria-King's Cross-Brixton.Also in those days a train was stabled in 22 sdg at Brixton between the peaks. That reminds me of the off-peak Piccadilly service in the '70s (Rayners Lane-Cockfosters and Hounslow West-Wood Green-Barons Ct-Arnos Grove--Hounslow West). |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Aug 8, 2008 21:19:47 GMT
Is there really a crossover north of Highbury?
It is not shown on the Victoria Line track map on The London Tube website
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2008 21:56:25 GMT
The crossover is south North of the station (and was used regularly when the Victoria Line was opened in stages)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2008 23:18:14 GMT
The crossover is about 1km north of Highbury & Islington. I accidentally omitted it from the track map, sorry!
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Post by uzairjubilee on Aug 9, 2008 10:27:24 GMT
North or South??
And Stephen, how do you produce track maps?
Thanks
Uzair
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Post by superteacher on Aug 9, 2008 11:00:19 GMT
The crossover is definitely north of the station. It was a scissors crossover when the line first opened, but was converted to a trailing one some time later.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 9, 2008 13:11:44 GMT
The crossover is definitely north of the station. It was a scissors crossover when the line first opened, but was converted to a trailing one some time later. According to Traffic Supplement 40/1968 (published in October) - Opening of Stage II between Highbury and Warren Street: K - Highbury - Signalling Alterations and Reversing K1 - Facing Crossover No 7 north of the station has been taken out of commission and Signal No VJ 1 has been converted to a headway post No 435. Signal No VJ 12 has been renumbered as A1002. Stage II opened on Monday 4th November 1968; the signalling going 'Live' on the Sunday night preceding. It appears that the facing part of the scissors was removed on 6/11/68. From looking at Victoria WTT 1 - 26/8/68 - the facing crossover and platform 3 was only booked to be used from 1558 onwards during weekdays; 1116 onwards on Saturdays; 1310 onwards on Sundays. Looking at the WTT there was a definate 'split', platform 5 (SB) used during the morning and platform 3 (NB) used during the afternoon/evening. Unlike most UndergrounD termini with scissors the platform usage did not alternate. VJ 1 was the 'outer home' on the Northbound; VJ 12 was the 'junction home' on the Southbound' - in common with most Victoria line signals arbour lights were not provided. The only ones provided at opening were on VK11 - onto the Picc, VK2 - off the Picc; and VL6 - bay platform NB starter at Seven Sisters. (gets it back on-topic by mentioning Seven Sisters. ;D) |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 9, 2008 13:55:00 GMT
The use of platforms at Highbury was matched to the passenger flow - once the line was extended to Warren Street, the scissors crossover was no longer needed, as the Highbury platforms were used for through running and not reversing trains.
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 9, 2008 15:38:40 GMT
The use of platforms at Highbury was matched to the passenger flow - once the line was extended to Warren Street, the scissors crossover was no longer needed, as the Highbury platforms were used for through running and not reversing trains. Au contraire - Highbury can still be used to reverse trains - the peril I quoted above details the alterations needed for automatic reversing with the two stencils saying 'Shunt' and 'Reverse' on VJ9 and VJ3. However, I'll not say anything further about H&I here, as the thread is about Seven Sisters.  |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 9, 2008 19:42:02 GMT
The only ones provided at opening were on VK11 - onto the Picc, VK2 - off the Picc; and VL6 - bay platform NB starter at Seven Sisters. (gets it back on-topic by mentioning Seven Sisters. ;D) And VL1, NB junction home at Seven Sisters Au contraire - Highbury can still be used to reverse trains - the peril I quoted above details the alterations needed for automatic reversing with the two stencils saying 'Shunt' and 'Reverse' on VJ9 and VJ3. I'll now and reverse your efforts to get back on topic by mentioning Highbury! Auto reversing there has been officially out of commission since 1973, but it is believed to have not been used for some time before that (probably 1968) as there is a theory that the circuits would have never worked in the first place. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2008 21:46:52 GMT
I'll now and reverse your efforts to get back on topic by mentioning Highbury! Auto reversing there has been officially out of commission since 1973, but it is believed to have not been used for some time before that (probably 1968) as there is a theory that the circuits would have never worked in the first place. Is that why the previous thread on H&I during the line closures contained so many people curious about why trains were traversing a 50mph-rated trailing crossover at half that speed? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 9, 2008 22:04:27 GMT
Don't think so... the safety circuits work, it was the non-safety auto route call circuits that don't.
If trains reverse at Highbury the Cobourg Street signaller has to manually route them in Push Button mode, as opposed to the auto reverse mode.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 10, 2008 0:02:23 GMT
And VL1, NB junction home at Seven Sisters Au contraire - Highbury can still be used to reverse trains - the peril I quoted above details the alterations needed for automatic reversing with the two stencils saying 'Shunt' and 'Reverse' on VJ9 and VJ3. I'll now and reverse your efforts to get back on topic by mentioning Highbury! Auto reversing there has been officially out of commission since 1973, but it is believed to have not been used for some time before that (probably 1968) as there is a theory that the circuits would have never worked in the first place. Indeed - hence (the order of) the T/Op operated plungers (in the grand scheme of reversing things), I think. The original plan was merely for the Motorman to shut down one end and walk to the other with no need to intervene with the signalling. Incidentally - why is A1002 back to being VJ2 - is this to avoid confusion with A1002 (Aldwych Home)? And VL1, NB junction home at Seven Sisters We've both forgotten VL22 B *fights valiant rearguard action to mention Seven Sisters again* - the 'i ntermediate nner junction home' on Road 63, depot exit road. |
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Post by Tom on Aug 10, 2008 12:09:49 GMT
I'm not even sure the plungers work - there was some debate about 'fuses in/fuses out' a few years ago...
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Post by subwayrail on Aug 10, 2008 15:08:54 GMT
I'm not even sure the plungers work - there was some debate about 'fuses in/fuses out' a few years ago... I did a Highbury reverser (S/B to N/B) a few weeks ago. We were pushing plungers then, and the signal was changing simultaneously. So it seems that, here at least, they do work. |
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