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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2005 17:12:43 GMT
I was at Brixton today and noticed that the red platform repeater, the Rear Cab Clear indicator and the red platform starter were all flickering - what could cause a signal to flicker? Also, every time a Vic train came in and blew down after terminating, a strange horn would be heard after a minute or so. Is this the step-back horn?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2005 18:02:02 GMT
could be a high resistance contact on a relay
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Post by q8 on Nov 6, 2005 19:15:10 GMT
The signals flicker and alwayts have done since the start. This is due to the way the coded track circuits work and is not a fault. The horn is probably a reminder to drivers to push the 'step back' plunger so that the machine can clear the route back out again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2005 19:21:33 GMT
The signals flicker and alwayts have done since the start. This is due to the way the coded track circuits work and is not a fault. Hmmmm - I'll have to read my new purchase and see if it explains why... The horn is probably a reminder to drivers to push the 'step back' plunger so that the machine can clear the route back out again. Interesting - I didn't know the step-back plunger was part of the interlocking; I thought it was there purely to tell the other driver that the incoming driver had shut down his cab.
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Post by tom2506 on Nov 6, 2005 19:26:38 GMT
what happens when the step back plunger is pressed?
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Post by q8 on Nov 6, 2005 20:55:22 GMT
Well In my time when you stepped back at the Elephant in the peak you had to bang the plunger. If you did not the signalman could not clear rhe northbound starter.He'd come out of the cabin and holler blue murder at you for locking him up and bash the thing himself. The times I used to forget.
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Post by tom2506 on Nov 6, 2005 20:58:02 GMT
So stepping back is plunging to let the signalman know your ready to go
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2005 20:59:37 GMT
Heh - I could just imagine a signalman hollering and yelling at a repentant motorman whilst a crowd of punters customers looks on Were these plungers provided after the Bakerloo went to Stanmore?
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Post by q8 on Nov 6, 2005 21:32:31 GMT
AFAIK the plungers were there from the day stepping back began. I dunno when that was.
The plunger lit up a visual in the cabin 'rear cab clear' He could then pull off the starter. I *think* but I am not sure that there was lever in the cabin that actuated the stepping back procedure. Then again as there were plungers on both platforms it may have just lit up the visual. I know the visual was extinguished by the starter returning to danger as the train left. The plunger also lit up a second visual on the headwall to let the relieving motorman know that his back cab was clear. The turn round time was so tight you barely had time to shut down, bang the plunger and walk the length of the other platform to take your next train out. 4 minutes in total.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 6, 2005 23:04:29 GMT
The signals flicker and alwayts have done since the start. This is due to the way the coded track circuits work and is not a fault. The horn is probably a reminder to drivers to push the 'step back' plunger so that the machine can clear the route back out again. I still haven't worked out what it is causing the flickering lamps on the Vic Line; it could be an HR relay contact as Pat suggests or a filament starting to go in the lamp, but almost everything does it. It isn't code related though; all signal lamp circuits are fed 'pure' 125Hz. The horn sounds once the plunger has been operated.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 6, 2005 23:07:21 GMT
I *think* but I am not sure that there was lever in the cabin that actuated the stepping back procedure. From what I've seen of both the frame and prints for Elephant Cabin there wasn't a lever which set the procedure up. Were step backs occuring all day? As currently stepping back only applies in the peaks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2005 23:10:08 GMT
So stepping back is plunging to let the signalman know your ready to go AFAIK they show an indictaion at the other end of the train that the train operator is clear, so that the releaving driver can now get onto the train and open it up. Platform repeaters never show red, otherwise train operators would stop at it and treat it as a danger signal, this is why their equilivant aspect is yellow.
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Post by q8 on Nov 7, 2005 0:21:18 GMT
The flickering on the Vic line is cause I beleive by somesort of pendulum relay that creates the cyles of the command spots or track circuitis. I'll have to dig out the book and see.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2005 8:20:35 GMT
Platform repeaters never show red, otherwise train operators would stop at it and treat it as a danger signal, this is why their equilivant aspect is yellow. Not on the Vic! The platform repeater is as red as any stop signal, and this is so across the entire line!
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Post by q8 on Nov 7, 2005 8:31:01 GMT
Actually TOK on the Victoria they aren't platform repeaters. They are headwall indicators purely to tell drivers the state of the code. Same difference I know.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2005 10:14:47 GMT
That's an unusual choice of nomenclature, and one I'd not heard yet. You learn something new every day
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2005 16:47:45 GMT
Not on the Vic! The platform repeater is as red as any stop signal, and this is so across the entire line! A platform repeater cannot show a red aspect, likewise neither can any other REPEATER. What you have on the Victoria Line is 'Headwall Indicators'.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2005 18:50:57 GMT
it could if you changed the lense ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2005 19:51:57 GMT
Not on the Vic! The platform repeater is as red as any stop signal, and this is so across the entire line! A platform repeater cannot show a red aspect, likewise neither can any other REPEATER. What you have on the Victoria Line is 'Headwall Indicators'. *shrug* Like I said, you learn something every day. Personally I would have called them co-acting signals, but they clearly aren't at that, so 'platform repeaters' was what fell out of my fingers. Thanks very much, Met App - you wouldn't happen to know if the VLU will retain them when the new signalling is put in place, do you? The repeaters on the Central Line were taken OOU, but the Vic ones are actually quite useful - same goes for the Jubbly, including the out of use indicators on the stage 1 route.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Nov 7, 2005 20:47:16 GMT
The signals on the Victoria Line have always flickered,due to the code generators.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 7, 2005 21:41:57 GMT
A platform repeater cannot show a red aspect, likewise neither can any other REPEATER. What you have on the Victoria Line is 'Headwall Indicators'. *shrug* Like I said, you learn something every day. Personally I would have called them co-acting signals, but they clearly aren't at that, so 'platform repeaters' was what fell out of my fingers. At Brixton they are technically co-actors. If the route doesn't involve points the corner signal can be the starter, if there are points there is a conventional signal head at normal height as well as the corner signal unit.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Nov 7, 2005 21:45:49 GMT
The flickering on the Vic line is cause I beleive by somesort of pendulum relay that creates the cyles of the command spots or track circuitis. I'll have to dig out the book and see. Pendulum code generators are used for 120, 180 and 270 code, but as I stated previously the lamps are all fed pure 125Hz (i.e. not coded). It's probably that the code gens cause an uneven load on the signal main transformers and hence the flickering as the load varies, but the coded supplies only have an indirect effect.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 15:17:52 GMT
Thanks very much, Met App - you wouldn't happen to know if the VLU will retain them when the new signalling is put in place, do you? As the new signalling system on the Victoria Line will be near enough the same as that on the central, I would presume that the headwall indicators will be removed, as technically they are no longer used as trains do not have guards on them any more.
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Post by DWS on Nov 8, 2005 15:28:20 GMT
Thanks very much, Met App - you wouldn't happen to know if the VLU will retain them when the new signalling is put in place, do you? As the new signalling system on the Victoria Line will be near enough the same as that on the central, I would presume that the headwall indicators will be removed, as technically they are no longer used as trains do not have guards on them any more. The Victoria Line never had Guards
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 16:00:43 GMT
The Victoria Line never had Guards I know, I was talking generically about platform repeaters and especially in releation to the Central Line
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 16:15:15 GMT
But platform repeaters are used by SATS.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 16:25:51 GMT
But platform repeaters are used by SATS. They are now. On the likes of the Central Line, CSA PDs (the new name for SATS) they have to use the Dot Matrix, as when the signal is clear and the countdown to departure is at 10 secs, 'MIND THE DOORS' will flash.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 16:28:32 GMT
CSA PDs = Customer Service Assistant ... Platform Despatcher?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 16:45:02 GMT
CSA PDs = Customer Service Assistant ... Platform Despatcher? Close! Platform Duties.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 17:45:40 GMT
But platform repeaters are used by SATS. They are now. On the likes of the Central Line, CSA PDs (the new name for SATS) they have to use the Dot Matrix, as when the signal is clear and the countdown to departure is at 10 secs, 'MIND THE DOORS' will flash. Which is precisely why I asked if the VLU would retain them. Considering the tremendous peak-time loadings on the line I would have thought that CSA-PDs woudl be present at every single station.
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