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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 14, 2006 22:44:13 GMT
On the section North of Queens Park, when the last train stops at these stations, is it lamped out? Or does the Driver depart as if he/she is working a "a normal train"?
Similarly District trains on the Richmond branch?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2006 22:53:38 GMT
I know Bakerloos have to stop north of QP [in shed] to await permission from the NR controller to allow access to 'thier' metals....
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Post by mandgc on Sept 15, 2006 0:22:14 GMT
"Lamping the Last Train" ( what a horrible expression!) was, I think, a London UndergrounD procedure used possibly because of the distances from the street or between platforms and their practice of advertising 'Last trains' and connecting services at interchange stations.
A pity Last Buses don't have some system to prevent Drivers belting it to the Depot on the last journey!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 15, 2006 2:29:32 GMT
First of all let's explain to those not in the know - lamping out is the procedure whereby last trains must be shown a green lamp (or flag) at every station, by station staff, prior to departure. On the section North of Queens Park, when the last train stops at these stations, is it lamped out? Or does the Driver depart as if he/she is working a "a normal train"? Similarly District trains on the Richmond branch? I can't speak for the Bakerloo, but on the District we must be shown a green at every station except: Upminster Barking Wimbledon Gunnersbury Kew Gardens Richmond "Lamping the Last Train" ( what a horrible expression!) was, I think, a London UndergrounD procedure used possibly because of the distances from the street or between platforms and their practice of advertising 'Last trains' and connecting services at interchange stations. You talk as if we don't do it anymore! ;D I don't know the history behind it, but I believe the reason we still do the procedure is so that: 1) Station staff know that the last train has passed. 2) Station staff can ensure the station is closed correctly. 3) Late customers can be suitably advised 4) Connections (only in the working timetable these days) can be maintained. |
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Post by mandgc on Sept 15, 2006 4:58:37 GMT
"Talk as if we don't do it anymore"
I haven't a clue what you do now (except what I learn on here!) but gave what I think were the reasons for the practice on LT.
I could imagine the practice would have been useful also on NR staffed stations at, say, Willesden Junction, from High Level to New station, or at Barking from Southend or Tilbury Platforms to the District.
Your first three reasons seem to be for the benefit of Staff rather than Passengers. :-)
When I started on the platform at Wembley Park in the Fifties ( Oh, God !!- Here he goes again.) the Station Inspector would call round the Booking Hall - "Last Watford train leaving", "Last Bakerloo to Elephant - - - etc." and then call down the stairs to us at the bottom to give the Green Light to each train.
Obviously the Met tradition , or just the LPTB tradition, lingered on .
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 15, 2006 8:14:01 GMT
I know Bakerloos have to stop north of QP [in shed] to await permission from the NR controller to allow access to 'thier' metals.... No they don't. What they wait for is signal WS13 to clear. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 10:30:38 GMT
Last Bakerloo's are not lamped north of QPK due to the fact most of the stations are unmanned and it's NR, and i'm assuming the service isn't "guaranteed" as when the job is up the wall they lay over the last S/B in Queens Park north sheds to start it's last trip from there even though it's booked ex Harrow. Drivers accept handsignals between Kilburn Park and Elephant only.
The fact Bakerloo's are usually held in the sheds is often due to the signalman giving priority to Silverlinks. A similar practice to that excercised by Met and District signallers when it comes to holding Circle/H&C's! (cue angry response from signalling grades!! ;D )
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 17, 2006 10:33:41 GMT
The fact Bakerloo's are usually held in the sheds is often due to the signalman giving priority to Silverlinks. A similar practice to that excercised by Met and District signallers when it comes to holding Circle/H&C's! (cue angry response from signalling grades!! ;D ) I would dispute that being a fact - the NR signaller will clear for whichever is the next timetabled train through. One of the reasons for the (very) high number of SPADs on the Queen's Pk NB starter is the read-through from WS13 which has been cleared early. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 10:40:34 GMT
True, but the NB starter is LU controlled and the stick at the end of the sheds (Ws13?) is NR controlled. Communication between the two has never been that good so can't see the NR signalman bothering to hold it for that reason. I could be wrong though...
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Post by citysig on Sept 17, 2006 12:25:46 GMT
A similar practice to that excercised by Met and District signallers when it comes to holding Circle/H&C's! (cue angry response from signalling grades!! ;D ) I shall not rise to it, but to split your statement: i) Exercise? What's that? ii) There are no Met signallers in a position to hold Circle/H&Cs iii) It's not the Circle/H&Cs that the Met signallers would hold if there was a service they were holding - which there isn't  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 18:30:41 GMT
I know Bakerloos have to stop north of QP [in shed] to await permission from the NR controller to allow access to 'thier' metals.... No they don't. What they wait for is signal WS13 to clear. My information comes from a cab-ride video... |
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 17, 2006 18:44:21 GMT
Shamu-Eye of the driver? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 19:06:07 GMT
That it be TB...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 20:47:10 GMT
When I was on the Central Line, we were told that we had to use the SAT's bat to give the last train the right.
LU management have tried to remove the need to lamp out the last train, but the unions have always resisted.
The other 'issue' with lamping out the last train, is the position in whcih you do so. You should be at the headwall (with a lamp) but locations still lamp out from half-way along the platform. True/ False?
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 17, 2006 21:03:00 GMT
Most of the time, I and my colleagues did it half-way along the platform [Northern's platforms are mainly curved, on Camden group anyway]
Since moving to the JLE, where the platforms are straight, the lamp is shone into the cab.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 21:14:35 GMT
Like like that fool at Notting Hill, gave me the lamp alright!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 21:38:49 GMT
Like like that fool at Notting Hill, gave me the lamp alright! Which you then gave back |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 21:40:51 GMT
yes, the next day!
[stops before thread edges towards being hijacked]
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 17, 2006 21:40:55 GMT
The other 'issue' with lamping out the last train, is the position in whcih you do so. You should be at the headwall (with a lamp) but locations still lamp out from half-way along the platform. True/ False? Very, very true  And they're always halfway down the platform where black & white monitors are in use |
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 17, 2006 21:50:11 GMT
I sense a bit of station staff bashing here. Colour monitors on the Northern! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 22:00:23 GMT
I sense a bit of station staff bashing here. Colour monitors on the Northern! Colour monitors on most of the District too now. Wouldn't trust them for reading a handlamp aspect though: I've seen monitors where the red doors look blue! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 22:09:22 GMT
I think the OPO monitors built into the driver's panels on the 92, 95 and 96 stocks are all supposed to be in colour - will the 2009TS and S stock also have colour OPO monitors?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 22:11:59 GMT
The other 'issue' with lamping out the last train, is the position in whcih you do so. You should be at the headwall (with a lamp) but locations still lamp out from half-way along the platform. True/ False? Very, very true And they're always halfway down the platform where black & white monitors are in use And the ones who just stand in the crowd and hold the lamp limply annoy me. Why don't they wave it about, so it's more obvious especially from the monitors. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2006 22:13:44 GMT
will the 2009TS and S stock also have colour OPO monitors? I should imagine so. Having B&W monitors is a backward step. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 12:46:59 GMT
We were told that some drivers on the Central had complained regarding the lamp being used via the Track 2 Train CCTV, so we were then told to use the baton. Bit of a shame as I used to enjoy the chat with the last train IF the driver bothered to open his/ her door. I always found the West Ruislip drivers far more accommodating for a late night chat, than their Eastern counterparts - although in fairness the West Ruislip drivers were much closer to home.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 16:46:36 GMT
Ere!!! Wots wrong with us W.City blokes? Yeah, must admit I did complain after one swine shone the light directly into the T2T cctv camera, nearly blinding me....
I will chat to station staff, should they make they're prescence known to me...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 17:12:11 GMT
And the ones who just stand in the crowd and hold the lamp limply annoy me. Why don't they wave it about, so it's more obvious especially from the monitors. Well, strictly speaking, a lamp of any colour waved side to side is meant to be an emergency stop signal. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2006 20:34:56 GMT
Ere!!! Wots wrong with us W.City blokes? Yeah, must admit I did complain after one swine shone the light directly into the T2T cctv camera, nearly blinding me.... I will chat to station staff, should they make they're prescence known to me... Now I think of it.... The last Ealing Broadway service, is that a White City duty? When I became rostered we'd only lamp out a WHC driver on a Sunday, so perhaps my previous statement is a little unfair to the West Londoners |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2006 7:53:56 GMT
Like like that fool at Notting Hill, gave me the lamp alright! Not me.......I always used the bat when I was on that group. We used the Bardic on the District/Circle platforms though. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2006 11:08:00 GMT
So what's the score when an LU station is left unmanned at the close of traffic (as i know happens from time to time)?
Obviously the driver of the last train is not going to want to hang about due to the more exciting prospect of sleep, but my understanding would be that the driver is (as per the working reference manual) within their rights to remain in the platform until a green handsignal is provided.
Obviously that would have massive implications for the rest of the line and i've never heard of anyone doing it, but surely if they are expected to continue without a handlamp from an unstaffed (LU) station then it negates the need to be lamped out at any station?
Can of worms? ;D
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