Lamping last Bakerloo

Wildlife in the form of a lesser spotted SA or the rarer lesser spotted SS. Sadly may be even lesser spotted in 2007

A shroud has been fitted around BB32(1) to supplement the existing one - I presume this is an anti-SPAD measure?

Is there any aspect we might use other than green when lamping you out?

And, not so much on the Bakerloo line (which the SCRAs do at CHX anyway and at which the station starters are clearly visible from the entire platform) but certainly on the northbound Northern Line platform the starter is not visible at any point of the platform. We therefore have to stand where we can see the repeater. Which is, for some reason, level with the rear of the 5th car.
As it is the only platform at Charing Cross where we perform SATS, it is a bit of a pain quite frankly.

But what's with the headwall thing anyway?
If the Op can see exactly what the lamper can then there seems little point in the excersie in the first place.
Is it simply a matter of radio communication from whoever is watching the monitors to say that there are no more customers on the way to the train?
If I am running the gateline (while another member of staff is lamping out) I don't let any customers through unless they are going to make the train in good time - 2 minutes to the Northern Line and 3 to the Bakerloo. I tell them it has gone.

Would that not be the duty of the station starter rather than the lamper-out?
I wasn't aware that we were giving the right - though I am quite prepared to accept we are, if you tell me so - rather than an indication. As we would when we are performing SATS.

Ok, so I can lamp them from the tailwall then, and if the T/op gets surly, I can "quote the rule book"

My point was related specifically to showing a green aspect into a black & white monitor. As we drivers cannot tell, in such an instance, whether or not a red aspect is being shown..................well, let's assume the driver takes it as a green - the said driver may have accepted a red and will now have committed a SPAD. Whilst the onus is obviously on the driver to make sure of which aspect he/she is being shown; a little forward thinking by station staff in such circumstances would make life easier all round.

Again all I'm saying is that where black & white monitors are in use, then it'd be useful if station staff could consider the impact of their actions - but fair comment, point taken.

The procedure, at least for now, involves the use of a green lamp - it should be in the working reference manual somewhere.

Like I say, the current procedure is in the working reference manual - however the new rules are very vague / watered down so I suppose this method may become acceptable. That said, unless your station radio can contact a train (possible with Connect) directly and securely [which Connect isn't at the moment], I don't think that this can be considered the way ahead at present.

Well that's your choice - each station has their own way of working according to their local set-up.

I would say that a yellow is only used in relation to procedures where the hand signaller forms a part of the signalling system.

The last train procedure isn't actually a hand signalling procedure (not in the sense of the signalling system anyway). It just so happens that a green lamp is used for it.

Yep - very vague indeed .

From what I hear, CSA's now receive only the very basic of railway training - apparently they're expected to learn it all once they reach their posted station(s). That's all well & good if you have enthusiastic supervisors / colleagues that are willing & able to show you the right way of doing things.

I don't hold any ill thoughts towards station staff - it's not their fault. They only know what they've been taught and if the training is sub standard.........well, we all end up suffering for it.

There was talk at one time of holding mixed block training; where stations & trains get together and discuss things from each others perspective.

Pity it's never happened

But why would a CSA lamping out the last train ever use anything but a green aspect?
If we are showing you a light it is never going to be anything else.

As I say, we are not giving you The Right anyway - just indicating that there is no customer-related reason for you to ignore the station starter.


each station supervisor has their own way of working - we work around their way of doing things, but I think that generally it is seen as bad form to make the last train (and therefore dead late staff from every station along the line) late because one idiot can't make it to the station on time.

On that note. I personally feel that a SATs baton would be a much better option....

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

What a wally.

I have been held on a red lamp at a connecting station on more than one occasion. I've also seen green lamps waved as the CSA is walking along the platform whilst I'm ENTERING the platform - emergency stop?

To me it's about railway basic's - I've lost count of the number of station staff that just don't seem to comprehend that their actions may be taken as meaning something different to what is intended.

In a depot we can, if the train radio has failed, be lamped/flagged out to the depot outlet shunt signal - that signal has to be clearly understood by the person it's intended for.........and not misinterpreted by anyone else. Two trains moving off together in the same direction in a depot.........that's how serious it can get.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but the railway, as we often tell the public, isn't a playground. It's a serious game and the staff running it ought to be singing from the same song sheet!!

I think the trouble is that there are so many new CSA's - at least on the Bakerloo line. Someone I often meet up with in taxis tells me she is one of the most senior at her station (I forget which) and has been there only six months and is yet to be signed off.

With such inexperienced staff it's no wonder that some bits of the training are forgotten or perhaps were never emphasised strongly and that we get a varied response. If they forget a bit there's nobody with extensive service to ask advice from. I've seen all sorts of signals from CSAs from a vague wave of the hand and wandering off (I actually sat there wondering what the hell that had meant and the CSA had to come back lol) to showing a green aspect until the train has departed.

Thanks for the reply gappe.

I've been lamping the last Bakerloos out this week.
Lovely - I can stand right next to the cab and still see the station starter.
I have a lovely view of the entire platform and the staircase down to it.
The SCRAs at Charing Cross have a much easier time than us SAs do lamping out the Northern Line.

We still never hold either line for connections to the other (unless there are obviously people barrelling down the connecting passageways, in which case we won;t show you any aspect) though.
I'd say "if in doubt, assume the lamper is giving you the green"

Not to mention even when a trainer is trying to cover something, some people just can't seem to take it in. The amount of time we had to spend simply trying to convince a couple of people in our training group that you could pass a shunt signal even if the normal signal was at red was absolutely unbelievable...! Our table grasped it fairly quickly (a traffic light metaphor was handy, if not entirely accurate - equating the shunt signal to amber meaning you could go (or at least start to go) even if a red is showing, as long as amber is showing in conjunction) but some of the others... ouch. Whilst lamping out was mentioned, we were never really told where to do it from - I admit I normally shine it into the OPO mirror if there is one, unless I get down before the train comes in, in which case I move closer to the headwall and show it from there.