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Post by gavelex on Feb 18, 2007 12:29:02 GMT
IIRC; Epping was at one point outside Zone 6... same here, I think Z6 finished at Louten at one time, could be wrong though. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 14:40:26 GMT
I think you are right there, Gavelex... Mind you, I remember when there was only FIVE zones...
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 18, 2007 14:56:51 GMT
I've been doing a bit of web searching about the history of the zones, and found almost nothing. About the only thing is this, from Everything2: Images from the Museum website:   |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 15:33:42 GMT
40p for four zones eh? Tsk!
Those were the days!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 17:04:15 GMT
40p for four zones eh? Tsk! Those were the days! What are you on about ATO, you get it all free now  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 22:21:10 GMT
Aye, point taken, but it just shows you how much the fares have increased in the last 24 years.
However, the current Zone One fare of £4 cash purchase, I still don't see less people using the trains, in fact, I'd say theres a heck of a lot more using the tube now... Just before Xmas, we hit just over 4.1 million people in one day! How do they collate such information???
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 22:28:46 GMT
I don't think TfL are trying to price people off the tube. If they did that they would not raise bus prices.
They want people to go through gates quicker though as the gates are over 2x as quick with oyster.
a bit like the C&SLR raised prices to reduce demand after they opened.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2007 22:32:48 GMT
Three times as quick with Oyster, which can process 40 passengers per min, while paper ticket can do 15 passengers per min.
Quite the reverse of the Tuppenny Tube, the Central London, who, raised fares according to distance, and suffered a loss in passengers, so they reduced fares by 1/2old penny. never did bounce back until the Ealing Broadway extension opened in 1913, again, with the help of the GWR in so many ways...
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Post by compsci on Feb 19, 2007 7:05:26 GMT
I can actually get through a gate with a paper wicket without slowing down, particularly the old air operated gates as found at KCM. It does however require my ticket to be ready, in the right hand at the right angle and then for my hand to move to the exit slot quickly enough to catch the ticket as it is spat out. Rather too much for the walking suitcases who plague Thameslink in peak hours.
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Post by johnb on Feb 19, 2007 11:30:30 GMT
40p in 1981 money is £1.03 in 2005 money (just inflation, not including higher incomes - it's £1.57 as a share of average income). So the bus fare for a long journey is the same now as it was in 1981...
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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 19, 2007 11:38:20 GMT
The trouble isn't so much the tickets, but the rubbish new gates that take half an hour to open!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2007 12:14:45 GMT
Oh good lord yes!!!
They have a Mk3 gateline at Canary Wharf that is among one of the slowest gatelines around! Marylebone has a new Mk3 gateline as well and I'm convinced that the flow through it is slower than it is through the Mk2 gates.
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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 19, 2007 15:01:46 GMT
Why are the new ones much slower anyway? Surely they're making for more trouble.
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Post by amershamsi on Feb 19, 2007 17:50:55 GMT
the one time I went in with Oyster (looked at what i had cost, and it was about twice what I would pay on paper travelcard, using my Young Persons rail card) it took at lot longer to go through the gates than with a ticket - I use a smart card at uni, for buses, opening doors, etc and i was used to the speed of that - I kept on having to reswipe it until it worked.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2007 22:41:29 GMT
I can actually get through a gate with a paper wicket without slowing down, particularly the old air operated gates as found at KCM. It does however require my ticket to be ready, in the right hand at the right angle and then for my hand to move to the exit slot quickly enough to catch the ticket as it is spat out. Rather too much for the walking suitcases who plague Thameslink in peak hours. Ahh, the older air operated gates: halfway through, SLAM! PS: Whats a paper wicket? Tell the ECB, we actually might win a match for once! I actually have no idea where TfL came up with that figure I quoted, but I got that from the Oyster website! |
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Post by jr on Mar 1, 2007 20:50:36 GMT
With all this talk on the Chesham branch a few questions have come to mind;
-Which Met depots sign the branch?
-How is working the branch viewed by drivers (love/hate/indifferent?)
-How long is an average turn on the branch?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2007 20:53:49 GMT
I guess all Met T/Ops are signed for the road to Chesham... they would have to be because of the Peak through services...
End to end [Chalfont - Chesham] times are 7-9 minutes, so I believe... There is roughly a 40 min service interval... Thus there are longish layovers at either terminii...
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Post by Chris M on Mar 1, 2007 21:12:20 GMT
The layover at Chesham is about the time it takes to change ends + 2-3 minutes in my very limited experience.
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Post by c5 on Mar 1, 2007 22:58:43 GMT
The 4 Car Chesham shuttle runs every 30 minutes.
Train Operators from all the depots - Rickmansworth, Neasden/Wembley Park sign the road. Off the top of my head some of the duties go up to about 4 hours, before grub.
There are a number of 8 Car journeys (from and to the main) apart from the two with-peak flow though trains to and from Aldgate. These operate at the start and lose of traffic.
During leaf fall season, when the Rail Adhesion Train operates over the branch, customers use this rather than the 4 Car.
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Post by abe on Mar 2, 2007 12:09:43 GMT
During leaf fall season, when the Rail Adhesion Train operates over the branch, customers use this rather than the 4 Car. How does this work then? The bay platform at Chalfont seems to be about 4 cars long, so the RAT wouldn't fit. Also, the actual sandite car in the RAT would need to have its doors locked out of use, including the end doors to prevent passengers entering. I've never seen the RAT in passenger use, and thought (although I freely admit that I don't know for sure) that this was not allowed. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2007 13:22:13 GMT
The bay platform at Chalfont is 8 cars long; the other bay platform (the one with the flowerbed) is the one that is 4 cars long.
I believe that when the RAT is in passenger service, the front DM is butterflied open and the passengers are chaperoned by a DMT, with the rest of the train empty. It generally works due to low patronage at times when the RAT is running.
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Post by amershamsi on Mar 2, 2007 13:52:08 GMT
The bay platform at Chalfont is 8 cars long; the other bay platform (the one with the flowerbed) is the one that is 4 cars long. Chalfont doesn't have 2 bay platforms - are you talking about Chesham? Chalfont's bay platform is 4 car, as far as I can remember. |
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Post by c5 on Mar 2, 2007 14:05:37 GMT
During leaf fall season, when the Rail Adhesion Train operates over the branch, customers use this rather than the 4 Car. How does this work then? The bay platform at Chalfont seems to be about 4 cars long, so the RAT wouldn't fit. Also, the actual sandite car in the RAT would need to have its doors locked out of use, including the end doors to prevent passengers entering. I've never seen the RAT in passenger use, and thought (although I freely admit that I don't know for sure) that this was not allowed. Apologies. What I meant was that the 4 Car Shuttle would stay in the Bay Road at Chalfont and the RAT would run from/to the main line to Chesham. Once the RAT is back on the main line the 4 Car Shuttle can then resume. The RAT is now 4 Cars long. When in passenger service the station supervisor (from either Chalfont or Chesham) rides on the train with the passengers. This is in the leading car. TOK- Chalfont has 3 platforms. 1 & 2 are the northbound and southbound main lines and platform 3 is the Bay Road and is 4 Cars long. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2007 18:44:07 GMT
TOK- Chalfont has 3 platforms. 1 & 2 are the northbound and southbound main lines and platform 3 is the Bay Road and is 4 Cars long. s/Chalfont/Chesham/g I can't type  |
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Post by abe on Mar 3, 2007 11:35:09 GMT
Interesting - many thanks for providing this information on what must be a rather unusual Underground working. I'll have to see if I can co-ordinate in the Autumn for a ride on the RAT!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2007 22:57:46 GMT
hi there , the rat isn't timetabled to go to Chesham during traffic hours - although it does go there if the shuttle driver requests it due to rail-head conditions.
the units they use on the shuttle are equipped with rail scrubbers which should help overcome any build up of leaves.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2007 21:16:53 GMT
When the S stock comes along, questions were being asked about what was happening to the shuttle. From what i have heard, a new platform is going to be built at Chalfont, that is capable of taking 8 cars. This would be located on the opposite side of where the current platform is
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Post by Chris M on Mar 10, 2007 21:49:59 GMT
Will this not make signalling/timetabling the area more complicated if the shuttle service has to cross the main lines?
From what I've heard about the folk at Chesham, I don't think they'll take kindly to losing a cross-platform interchange for one that requires going over or under the tracks?
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Post by Tom on Mar 10, 2007 22:28:03 GMT
I think the wires have become slightly crossed - the rumour is that the new platform will be built facing the existing bay road, but opposite to the existing bay platform (i.e. there will be two platform faces).
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Post by prjb on Mar 10, 2007 22:38:01 GMT
Whilst I am led to believe that MRSSL are looking at various possibilities, no firm decision has been made on this subject.
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