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Post by marty on Jul 12, 2006 16:45:53 GMT
In case of a stalled train/incident etc. where can Met trains be turned short (like a District Line train to Upminster can be turned short at Barking, for example) Another Question: If there is a short term problem at Amersham, would a Train at Chalfont be sent to Chesham or would it just wait at the platform (because As far as I can see on the Met DEV there are no sidings at Chalfont) Any answers are very much appreciated.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 12, 2006 16:54:23 GMT
I am not a "met man", but Afaik, Wembley Park, Harrow on the Hill, Rayners Lane, Ruislip, Hillingdon, Northwood [not 100% on that one] and Rickmansworth. Trains wouldnt be diverted to Chesham, due to the branch only being able to accommadate the shuttle. Chalfont as a reversing point? Have noticed the met is suspended every now and again between there and Amersham, but I dont know what happens to a train that is at Chalfont. Maybe it does sit there.
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Post by Harsig on Jul 12, 2006 17:20:55 GMT
In case of a stalled train/incident etc. where can Met trains be turned short (like a District Line train to Upminster can be turned short at Barking, for example) Another Question: If there is a short term problem at Amersham, would a Train at Chalfont be sent to Chesham or would it just wait at the platform (because As far as I can see on the Met DEV there are no sidings at Chalfont) Any answers are very much appreciated. Met Trains can be reversed at Amersham, Chalfont, Rickmansworth, Watford, Northwood, Uxbridge, Ruislip, Rayners Lane, Harrow on the Hill, Wembley Park, Neasden, Finchley Road, Swiss Cottage(Disused), Baker St, Kings Cross, Farringdon, Moorgate, Liverpool St and Aldgate. Now you might think it odd that I've listed some of the termini but with some service suspensions these can still offer an emergency reversing facility e.g. at Uxbridge a failure may prevent trains from reaching the platforms but they can still be reversed in the sidings. From the passengers' point of view this would represent a service suspension between Hillingdon and Uxbridge. As to your other question it is perfectly possible that trains might be diverted to Chesham. However if this is the case then these trains will run instead of the Chesham shuttle which will remain in the bay at Chalfont. Further it would not be possible to divert the full service to Chesham so some Amersham trains will have to reverse elsewhere, whether that be Chalfont, Rickmansworth. What happens to these trains depends on the circumstances; a train reversed at Chalfont would most likely run early south back to Rickmansworth. As far as possible the trains selected to be diverted to Chesham would be the ones that were scheduled to connect with the shuttle any way thus meaning that trains on the Chesham branch would be running near to the scheduled time of the shuttle.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 12, 2006 17:38:35 GMT
Excuse my ignorance but how do Met trains reverse at Finchley Road//these days? Is there a # over south of the station?
I also assume that there is no logical reason to send trains back via the North Curve to Watford? What would it achieve except to enable a Watford service to operate?
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Post by Harsig on Jul 12, 2006 18:02:00 GMT
Excuse my ignorance but how do Met trains reverse at Finchley Road//these days? Is there a # over south of the station? At Finchley Road there are two options for a South to North reversal. The most likely, if circumstances permit, is to detrain in the southbound platform, run forward empty to Swiss Cottage disused and reverse via the crossover there back to Finchley Road northbound platform. The other option is to reverse straight from the southbound platform and run north via the northbound Jubilee and regain the northbound Met at Neasden.
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Post by Oracle on Jul 12, 2006 21:03:30 GMT
Harsig, thanks. I go back to when there was a regular late night Met service on to the Jubilee with C Stock using the #-over south of Finchley Road. Southbound I believe there was a sort of loop between the SB Jubilee and the SB Met. How is reversal effected please from the SB Met using the #-over back to the NB Jubilee? Is there a #-over SB>NB Jubilee? Also and again please excuse my ignorance, but I thought that the Met trains on the Jubilee had stopped when the resignalling took place?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2006 0:46:03 GMT
No scheduled Met services run on the local lines between Finchley Road and Wembley Park anymore, and rolling stock transfers are rare.
The crossover between the n/b Met and the n/b Jubilee, controlled by MD32, was partially removed, thus isolating the n/b Met. Another crossover at West Hampstead between the n/b Jubilee and the n/b Met north of the crossover from the n/b Jubilee to the central reversing siding was removed in the 80s. Most of the other crossovers remain in place, thus allowing a Met train to run into platform 4 (s/b fast), reverse via MD27 to the n/b Jubilee via the s/b Jubilee.
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Post by Oracle on Jul 13, 2006 9:55:47 GMT
Cheers for that fascinating information! I am so out-of-date about the Jubbly so is there signalling extant that allows SB Mets to perform the manoeuvre mentioned and the next extant #-over to the NB Met? Which is where?
I am amazed that locally there is still the facility for Down trains to run from Totton Yard wrong line, duly signalled, through Totton station, across the causeway over the River Test, to Redbridge Junction and thence to the Up lines. This may have been left over from the days of the long-disused Eling Wharf branch which was a trailing connection from the Down immediately country end of Totton platforms, before the level crossing. There is still a ground level junction signal I think it is, facing in the Up direction. The trackbed has just been renewed! However although the wrong line reversing facility (Romsey-Totton trains reverse in the branch to Fawley or the Yard not in the station) is never seemingly used, you can bet if they removed it there would be a stuck train on the causeway so jamming up the system.
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Post by Colin D on Jul 13, 2006 14:44:03 GMT
Are the mercury tubes still used to to stop the Met trains entering the Jubbly platforms at, I believe it was Finchley Rd, or have they come up with a more hi-tech way to prevent this happening?
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Post by marty on Jul 13, 2006 17:09:16 GMT
Thanks for the prompt answers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2006 19:26:09 GMT
Are the mercury tubes still used to to stop the Met trains entering the Jubbly platforms at, I believe it was Finchley Rd, or have they come up with a more hi-tech way to prevent this happening? The tubes are still there at Finchley Road, at the entrance to the SB Jubilee Line platform track.
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Post by Oracle on Jul 13, 2006 19:50:29 GMT
I gather that the tubes are still there just west of Hounslow Central..why? No surface stock can get past Northfields now because of the replacement bridges at Hounslow East and Central?
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Post by Chris M on Jul 13, 2006 22:11:21 GMT
It would probably cost more money to take them down and deal with the mercury than to just maintain it as is.
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Post by prjb on Jul 13, 2006 22:17:16 GMT
I am led to believe that the tubes are no longer of the mercury type. Not sure on this though.
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Post by Colin D on Jul 14, 2006 15:48:20 GMT
Thanks for the info regarding the mercury tubes, much appreciated
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 14, 2006 16:48:27 GMT
The mercury was replaced with a less hazardous material, some sort of organic solvent or something.
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Post by prjb on Jul 14, 2006 19:34:56 GMT
I thought so, but couldn't remember where I had been told about it!
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Post by Tom on Jul 14, 2006 20:25:42 GMT
Silver paint. Nothing fancy or organic or solvent.
I've got a small bottle of the stuff upstairs somewhere...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2006 3:59:08 GMT
Does anyone know if S stock will be cleared to Hounslow Central on the Heathrow branch, or will surface stock be forever banned west of Northfields?
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Post by Ben on Jul 15, 2006 5:28:30 GMT
If only Heathrow were constructed as a sub surface stock line. Surely it would be extreamly advantagous to have surface stock running it instead of tube stock? More space for luggage, not as clostrophobic an environment for people disembarking from a plane etc?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 15, 2006 11:48:31 GMT
If only Heathrow were constructed as a sub surface stock line. Surely it would be extremely advantageous to have surface stock running it instead of tube stock? More space for luggage, not as claustrophobic an environment for people disembarking from a plane etc? I know this is getting right off the original subject, but the late J Graeme Bruce (former LT Operations Director) gave a talk to the LURS a few years ago. He said one of his biggest regrets, while in his powerful position, was NOT authorizing the Hounslow West-Hatton Cross line to be sub-surface stock height- rejected with a pen stroke purely on the grounds of cost.
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Post by Oracle on Jul 15, 2006 17:19:03 GMT
Hmmmm..they had enough darned problems with the tube size tunnels that they buiot. French's, the contractors, had a tough old time as we know from our family assoiccation with a chap who was the civil engineer. He was a scoutleader and helped out in my parent's group in Hounslow. Then agin, sub-surface stock would have been prohibited beyond HX unless the tube tunnels were going to be Northern City size! Then there was the delay in the authorisation of the T4 station that meant that the box which was resereved for the stattion in the T4 building had to be abandoned in favour of the car park! Back then the GLC were running the show, and I am amazed that the prpject was ever finished! The other problem was that the tunnels are only a short way below the surface along the shop fronts in Bath Road, then along under houses, and then the A30. I canunderstand how digging them deeper to allow SS stock would have been much more expensive.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2007 19:52:05 GMT
Regarding the reversal of Met trains at Liverpool Street, I am aware that this used to be done via the now disused bay platform. I have seen C stock reverse outer to inner rail in the outer rail platform, but the starter signal is not at the very rear of the platform. So does this mean an A stock fully berthed in the platform would already be past the signal. I assume that the A stock would have to run past the platform a couple of cars towards Aldgate so that the points for the crossover could be set for its journey back west? This kind of move would only be done as a very last resort. During disruption on the main Met line, A stock trains have been diverted into the inner rail circle line platform at Baker Street and then shunted back towards Aldgate, although I don't think the platform can accomodate the whole train.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2007 19:55:48 GMT
although I don't think the platform can accomodate the whole train. Your quite correct. I think there is a thread somewhere all about that move.
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Post by c5 on Sept 4, 2007 20:10:00 GMT
although I don't think the platform can accomodate the whole train. Your quite correct. I think there is a thread somewhere all about that move. Yup to sum up (the thread is somewherein the Met board). If possible detrain at Gt Portland St. Pull into Baker St Inner Rail. Detrain front 6 via Butterflies. Close doors. Draw forward with assisted despatch, detrain rear 2. Close doors. Change Ends. Depart East Empty, as not all train is in platform and to save further delay. C Stocks can depart in passenger. Cant remember off top of me head about Liverpool Street. C Stocks fit in the platform, but depart empty owing to it being a shunt signal move.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2007 21:55:12 GMT
Your quite correct. I think there is a thread somewhere all about that move. Yup to sum up (the thread is somewherein the Met board). If possible detrain at Gt Portland St. Pull into Baker St Inner Rail. Detrain front 6 via Butterflies. Close doors. Draw forward with assisted despatch, detrain rear 2. Close doors. Change Ends. Depart East Empty, as not all train is in platform and to save further delay. C Stocks can depart in passenger. Cant remember off top of me head about Liverpool Street. C Stocks fit in the platform, but depart empty owing to it being a shunt signal move. C Stock can use the crossover in passenger service as it is a fully signalled move. They often reverse there when there is engineering work on the District - the Met reverses at Moorgate during these times.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2007 22:00:29 GMT
If there is a problem in the city , we usually detrain Aldgate trains at Harrow and then reverse via Neasden depot , coming out for your correct time on the north at Wembley. In fact this procedure is used during any disruption south of Wembley Park.
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Post by happybunny on Sept 5, 2007 18:34:14 GMT
If there is a problem in the city , we usually detrain Aldgate trains at Harrow and then reverse via Neasden depot , coming out for your correct time on the north at Wembley. In fact this procedure is used during any disruption south of Wembley Park. Why not detrain at Wembley instead of Harrow, then at least the punters have more options!
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Post by c5 on Sept 5, 2007 18:42:00 GMT
If there is a problem in the city , we usually detrain Aldgate trains at Harrow and then reverse via Neasden depot , coming out for your correct time on the north at Wembley. In fact this procedure is used during any disruption south of Wembley Park. Why not detrain at Wembley instead of Harrow, then at least the punters have more options! This can be done every so often if the service is very poor. However, politics being politics, Wembley Park being a Jubilee line station will often not provide staff to detrain. Then comes the problem of people not getting off the trains, and then having more trains stuck on the Southbound Fast Line. They are then detrained at Harrow, where they can be "run-round" if need be. It is done, but not that often. As an aside if the trouble is south of Wembley Park then the Baker Streets will detrain at Wembley.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 19:01:19 GMT
Why not detrain at Wembley instead of Harrow, then at least the punters have more options! As you can easily shut wembley down if you have a train with the stick off going nowhere. Thats even with the new point work!
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