Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2005 22:10:10 GMT
Well,
All i can say i have been caught by them.
It's hardly a warning on most stock you 3 to 4 second on the central 1 and a half so you have to move like superman.
I was at oxford circus and it was busy and my sister didn't get in as they were closing we had no blody warning.
And hold 1992 stock doors is dangerous they have a habit of being very powerful.
But i had to i couldn't of left her at the station.
It was packed.
So i held them i never do this usually.
I did it and was a struggle well i was younger then.
The district even the un - refurb have the pshhh warning but D stock doors can be held open without much force the foot does it.
I do say this is the right thing to do and only if you really have to because A it delays the train B pi$$es the driver off and C could damage the door.
But it's better than pushing the emergency alarm even more delay.
Then again i was on the district at Upminster once a while back and an old lady got trapped in the door crushing her arm and the driver didn't open the doors so i pushed the alarm which is too high up i think.
Even two blokes couldn't get the door back. So i pusdhed it and the only time ever i was worried i would get fined but she didn't look to comfy in that area of a door.
But no i think the door chimes should give more warning!
Cheers
James
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Sept 25, 2005 22:18:01 GMT
We never used to have door chimes at all before, and there weren't injuries coz people WATCHED what they were doing.....
People are spoiled these days (all in the name of Health and Safety!)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2005 22:23:20 GMT
I am careful and do LOOK.
This was on one occasion.
I just think they are need on the central as they close VERY fast.
C A D close slowly so theres no need.
1995 and 96 aren't as bad either.
Just that you can get caught out by them easily. Thats all.
James
|
|
|
|
Post by clavman on Sept 26, 2005 1:26:33 GMT
You're right of course. It would make more sense for the chimes to sound a few seconds before the doors close. On the 92's most start chiming when they're half shut. A mod was supposed to correct the problem, but it seems as though that has been put on hold, along with other door modifications. Holding back the doors is rather a norty thing to do, not 'cos it pi$$es the driver off, but because it's dangerous - hence the message on the inside of the doors. It takes one faulty door interlock and you risk the chance of being dragged.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2005 10:06:16 GMT
Hmmm, I recently was in discussion with a few colleagues about how to stop people from holding back the doors and we came up with a few good suggestions.
Weld interlocking teeth to the egdes
Put a metal strip down the edges and attach these to the Auxilliary Battery or shoe gear...
Not strictly a humane or legal way to deal door-holders, but???
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2005 13:33:07 GMT
I'm surprised people try to hold open the doors on the 92s! They seem to whack shut at a fair old rate!
We can press the door close button at Mile End, and by the time our doors have decided to drag themselves closed, a 92 could have arrived, opened up, closed up and disappeared again!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by jordy on Sept 26, 2005 19:42:11 GMT
On the 92's most start chiming when they're half shut
Thats true, although they tend to be pretty random in my experiance. Is it the same on the drain??
Jordy
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2005 20:15:05 GMT
drain seems the same IIRC (been a couple of months) got me arm caught in a 92TS door once, didn't half hurt! although some bloke did manage to wrench to door open enough to allow me hand out...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2005 21:36:01 GMT
For the sake of running the service, we need to discourage door holders. Fast closing doors certainly do that - people are much less inclined to stand in the way of C stock doors than D stock! Unfortunately door chimes that give people too much warning invite them to hold the doors open for their friends.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Sept 27, 2005 0:04:25 GMT
For the sake of running the service, we need to discourage door holders. Fast closing doors certainly do that - people are much less inclined to stand in the way of C stock doors than D stock! Unfortunately door chimes that give people too much warning invite them to hold the doors open for their friends. I agree with that - Especially the last sentance. BTW, on Central line platforms (one's i've been on anyway), the dot matrix indicator board also displays a warning that the doors are about to close. |
|
|
|
Post by markextube on Sept 27, 2005 9:32:26 GMT
Well door chimes have thier good and bad points.
I when i was a guard on the northern there were no door chimes, or safe edges and the doors were of heavier construction. Still not many people were trapped, if they were it was because they weren't paying attention. But as a guard you could see the entire platform clearly!
Then came the 95 stock. CCtv doesnt have the same viewing angle as a pair of eyes so occasionally people running into view takes u by suprise. But i'd experiemtn with the door chimes.
At times i'd close the doorswith no chimes (yes there is a way to do it) And i had less people running on getting trapped etc. So the conclusion is if you have a door chime it warns people they are closing but they dont stop and wait for the next train they run into the door! Without the chime they dont run and then have to wait thus getting trapped is reduced.
If a train is too packed why drag you and your friends on with you when u have to sqeeze in and bound to get trapped. Wait for the next train!
|
|
|
|
Post by londontube on Sept 27, 2005 11:39:25 GMT
Why the hell do you need to jump onto a train as the doors are closing! The next one is usually 1 or 2 mins behind! On the way back from a school trip a few years ago, we took the Central Line, the train arrived we all started to get on, about 20 of us, and the doors suddenly closed, leaving about 12 behind. It was unusual because we weren't jumping on, we had been waiting at the platform! Are the 92 stocks doors automatic? I would have thought they could be manually re-opened or did we just have a grumpy driver?  |
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Sept 27, 2005 13:17:34 GMT
Hmmm, I recently was in discussion with a few colleagues about how to stop people from holding back the doors and we came up with a few good suggestions. Weld interlocking teeth to the egdes Put a metal strip down the edges and attach these to the Auxilliary Battery or shoe gear... Not strictly a humane or legal way to deal door-holders, but??? Three little letters: EDO (yes I know we've been there before but it's still true!). |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2005 20:18:24 GMT
Why the hell do you need to jump onto a train as the doors are closing! The next one is usually 1 or 2 mins behind! On the way back from a school trip a few years ago, we took the Central Line, the train arrived we all started to get on, about 20 of us, and the doors suddenly closed, leaving about 12 behind. It was unusual because we weren't jumping on, we had been waiting at the platform! Are the 92 stocks doors automatic? I would have thought they could be manually re-opened or did we just have a grumpy driver? Were all 20 of you filing on through the same door? Drivers can soon get bored with that! Use more than one (there are 4 per carriage) and you will all be sure of getting on. And the driver will be less grumpy.  |
|
|
|
Post by setttt on Sept 27, 2005 20:39:05 GMT
I when i was a guard on the northern there were no door chimes, or safe edges and the doors were of heavier construction. Still not many people were trapped, if they were it was because they weren't paying attention. But as a guard you could see the entire platform clearly! Slightly off-topic, but I was wondering if guards had a pilot light or did they just rely on their view of the train? |
|
|
|
Post by markextube on Sept 27, 2005 20:51:14 GMT
Yes there were two pilot lights one on each panel which both illuminated regardless of which side is in operation.
When the guard put his/her key to activate the panel and it's buttons the light would illuminate to indicate that all doors are closed (hopefully) if all is correct. Of course on the outside you have the amber lights on the roof which indicates if the door or doors on that car are open or closed.
Simple but effective as they were hard wired and not through computers as some of the newer stock are. This i find a bit silly as when you push the button this tells the software that it has been pushed then in turn it tells the other circuits to activate. The computer or TMS does help a little as it hopefully will inform you which car has a slow door or obstructed door after a few seconds.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2005 21:10:22 GMT
C and D stocks still have the "guard's panels" on the back wall of the cab, one each side, with door controls and pilot lights. These spare pilot lights are useful if the bulb in the main one goes pop.
On the D stock, the open buttons on the guard's panel have been changed to selective re-open buttons which only open the doors in a car where the train detects one open (so you can free the idiot trying to board the train far too late without letting people jam themselves into the doors of other cars).
On C stock, only the guard's door open buttons will work when the Correct Side Door Enable Override has been operated, so you have to physically go to the side you want to open, making it less likely that you would open the wrong side.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2005 21:18:35 GMT
Where were the buttons on the D stock.
I travel on it all the time and i don't see where it could be?
James
P.S
Sorry to be off topic!
|
|
|
|
Post by markextube on Sept 27, 2005 21:39:46 GMT
In regards to the door chimes of the central line 92 stock apart from being useless they are bloody loud and annoying. Anyway metronet has now been informed of this if not before so hopefully one day somebody will have the sense to modify these so they don't ake the hearing deaf and the deafe even deafer lol! |
|
|
|
Post by piccadillypilot on Sept 27, 2005 22:01:41 GMT
Slightly off-topic, but I was wondering if guards had a pilot light or did they just rely on their view of the train? Guards did indeed have a pilot light (sometimes only after giving a reluctant door a kick ;D ). If the pilot light was out the start signal bell to the driver wouldn't operate. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2005 2:04:54 GMT
Slightly off-topic, but I was wondering if guards had a pilot light or did they just rely on their view of the train? Guards did indeed have a pilot light (sometimes only after giving a reluctant door a kick ;D ). If the pilot light was out the start signal bell to the driver wouldn't operate. Correct. But, as PP and Jim (and definitely Q8) will remember, an open door only prevented the Guard from giving his mate the starting bell. There was no interlock to prevent the driver from starting-up in those days... and I can remember 'notching-up' on several occasions to prove to some punter that we COULD move the train with his foot in the door if we wanted to!! ;D  |
|
|
|
Post by q8 on Sept 28, 2005 3:12:18 GMT
Notching up was also the standard way of sometimes getting reluctant door to close and also to shake up a dodgy interlock when all were closed but one failed to make. The Guard would shout over the phone 'Give us a notch' This also saved him a tramp up and down the platform.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2005 5:34:05 GMT
Correct. But, as PP and Jim (and definitely Q8) will remember, an open door only prevented the Guard from giving his mate the starting bell. There was no interlock to prevent the driver from starting-up in those days... and I can remember 'notching-up' on several occasions to prove to some punter that we COULD move the train with his foot in the door if we wanted to!! ;D He he, I remember asking my mate to notch up once because a passenger stuck his foot in the door. I expected him to move a few inches, but he moved about 10 foot, the bloke fell on the platform and off we went, leaving him there |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2005 16:15:12 GMT
Re the orgininal title of this thread ;d i too can confirm this, as i was on the Central yesterday and saw some rather stupid sod run for the door as it was closing - and, as stated, the chimes didnt cut in until about the door was 1/2 way shut - unsurprisingly, given the speed of the closing door, he didnt make the train. Gave me a laugh though ;d
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2005 18:10:30 GMT
Maybe adding an automatic audible noise or announcement for passengers at the same time the driver gets the audible noise to depart and the *Mind The Doors* starts flashing on the DMI would help matters?
|
|
|
|
Post by trainopd78 on Dec 4, 2005 11:29:12 GMT
Maybe adding an automatic audible noise or announcement for passengers at the same time the driver gets the audible noise to depart and the *Mind The Doors* starts flashing on the DMI would help matters? I find that the door chimes might as well not exist as people don't listen to them anyway!! On C stock there is a way to produce a chime without actually closing the doors. I do this especially when busy to forwarn people, but they either don't bother to listen or just ignore it. I then get funny looks and gestures when people miss the train, even though they were given more than ample warning!! People also use the chimes as a license to give themselves more boarding time, When the chimes go, its a more than subtle hint to say these doors are closing , please wait for the next train. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2005 16:05:34 GMT
People also use the chimes as a license to give themselves more boarding time, When the chimes go, its a more than subtle hint to say these doors are closing , please wait for the next train. On some German and the Vienna metros, the drivers give a "please wait" message immediately before closing the doors. There are speakers on the outside of the cars so that people on the platform can hear this announcement. This does seem to result in less people trying to obstruct the doors, but this may be down to better behaved Germans/Austrians, or the more vicious plug doors! Maybe LUL should experiment with different messages, or automated announcements (in the case of the Central Line linked with the lines computer). Or maybe the BTP should do what is done in Hong Kong, and fine people who blatently obstruct the doors! |
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Dec 4, 2005 16:29:18 GMT
I repeat: go back to EDO (electric door operation).
The doors cannot be held open (tho the 4" gap still applies)
As has been implied above, the British do not like being told what to do, so door chimes are treated with 'It doesn't apply to me'.
Once the public get used to the fact that the doors WILL close, even with them in it, behaviour will change. Otherwise we'll just go on as we are.
THEN, it's worth having chimes - coz then it means 'GET OUT OF THE WAY'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2005 16:53:36 GMT
I have heard that the 09TS will have electric doors. Can anyone confirm this?
|
|
|
|
Post by Tomcakes on Dec 4, 2005 18:14:17 GMT
On C stock there is a way to produce a chime without actually closing the doors. I do this especially when busy to forwarn people, Is that done by pressing the other side door close buttons? |
|
