Rehome a SWR Island Line train ('38 stock)

Haha, a £26 investment!?

It will be very interesting to see what the outcome of the process is, although it's satisfying to see that the stock has been recognised as historically important. As for any running under their own power, I wonder if the system used for a number of American subway cars may be considered, which is fitting a trolley pole on the roof and erecting overhead line equipment.

To be at a safe height the pole would have to be quite long from the roof of Tube Stock

This group have an agreement in principle to take a unit to EOR and have now started fundraising towards this. Their intention is to keep it in IoW condition and run it on the EOR using either batteries or a generator. They’ve also pointed out the units still in service were originally owned by the LNER.
www.lttractiongroup.co.uk

I hope lltraction have deep pockets...

Not wishing to rain on anyone’s parade - but I think this thread is perhaps better suited to RIPAS or even FRIPAS sections of District Dave.

Once you read the whole invitation, it is quite clear South Western Railway are really looking to find someone with sizeable financial resources and ample space to provide a long term home for the whole Class 483 fleet (so not just cherry picking from the 3 units still in running order) hence the explicit mention of the need to remove units which have already been withdrawn/cannibalized for parts.

Reading between the lines (sorry about the pun) it seems South Western Railway just want to have a total clear-out of Class 483 units and their related stores facilities – so that the same buildings can then be reused to carry out equivalent functions supporting the Class 484 units. Ideally South Western Railway want someone else to pick up the whole bill. Doubtless there may be room for negotiation with credible bidders, but they still need the whole lot gone!

Of the original 10 x 2 car sets, only 3 are still nominally serviceable and a further 3 “withdrawn” with the rest already cannibalised for parts/and or scrapped. One by one Class 483 units have failed in service, and with each major failure, decisions have been made on whether it should be patched up or cannibalized to provide parts for the remaining units. That process cannot go on forever and it seems the Class 483 units have now done their bit and need a decent retirement home.

However given the immense cost just to get all the units and related scrap off the Island – that must weigh against any off island move.
The most realistic prospect is that maybe one presentable unit may find a place as a static exhibit somewhere on the island – so the Isle of Wight Steam Railway looks a favourite. The other credible alternative is razor-blades.

As for any of these units ever returning to active use on a preserved line, it is important to remember that these units are now all pretty much clapped out, which is why Island Line service reliability has been dropping.

Remember the youngest unit is still over 80 years old, so without insane expenditure on a complete a bottom up rebuild, there seems little prospect of these units finding further active use let alone being adapted to battery power. They have already done a lot of valiant public service, surviving not just their 50+ years with LU, but many more years on the Island-Line service where they have all been exposed to serious corrosion due to salt water on Ryde Pier.

As for Vivarail getting drawn in, they are first and foremost, a business, not a charity, so there is probably a limit to wishful thinking.

I suppose this is the place for me to look!

My username indicates my affiliation (www.lttractiongroup.co.uk).

To answer a few of the points raised as best as I can currently;

- We are looking at moving a single unit to the Epping Ongar Railway. This was already under negotiation with SWR before the press release came out. They are not looking for a single organisation to re-home all units.

- We are working with the EOR on details of an agreement for storage and operation of the unit. They are excited by the possibilities this opportunity presents.

- We are working with a supplier (not Vivarail) on the provision of battery equipment to install into the unit to allow operation on heritage lines. This has been specified for a range of 60 miles with maximum gradients of 1 in 55 over 0.3km, so perfectly adequate for a day's operation on the EOR including any possible future extensions (which as far as I am aware are not currently planned, but best to have that contingency in place).

- Since we have learned, from the IoWSR directly before the press release came out, that the IoWSR is interested in acquiring an operational unit we have decided that, in order to differentiate the two projects and to better suit the Epping Ongar we will gradually make cosmetic changes to our unit to reflect London Transport condition. We are not intending to make any mechanical changes, such as replacing the '62TS brake controllers that the units currently use.

- Much as I, personally, would love to see someone do a photoshop, model, or train simulator reskin of one of these in the LNER electric livery we are not considering doing it to any unit we may acquire! It may look good though, certainly better than the early-2000s 'Dinosaur' Livery (Not that anything can be much worse!).

- As far as we are aware SWR are reviewing each application on an individual basis and allocating the units based upon that. At this stage we are absolutely as in the dark as anybody else regarding which unit (if any) we might get. We feel that we are in a much stronger position than many possible applicants in that we have a suitable long-term location lined up, a definite plan and (most importantly) are under no illusions about the cost of moving two cars from Ryde to a mainland location, and for the proposed conversion. We know that this will be expensive, we have the quotes to prove it. We also have a gradually increasing stream of financial pledges coming in and are preparing to be able to accept actual donations.

- The Isle of Wight Steam Railway are interested in one for use as hauled coaching stock, as well as an exhibit in their excellent 'Train Story' Museum at Havenstreet.

- One unit, 483007, is currently nearing the end of a 3-year long overhaul. The bogies were seen being worked on at Eastleigh in March and Yesterday the Shanklin-end (D) car was seen (by me!) on the jacks in the shed waiting for the 'new' bogies to be placed under it. With the overhaul not yet complete, track renewals scheduled this month and the withdrawal date drawing ever closer (It will only have continued mainline service of a few months, on better track than '006 and '008 are currently being thrashed about on) this unit is undoubtedly the No.1 prize here and it will almost certainly be preserved somewhere which is able to run it. Where, exactly, is entirely open to conjecture until SWR formally allocate the units their preservation owners.

- The Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board designation, plus SWR's expressed wish that they do not wish to scrap them all (They appear to only be offering five of the six extant units for preservation, suggesting that 2008-withdrawn 483002 has been condemned) means that it is unlikely that we will see many, if any, of those offered for preservation scrapped.

I fear, therefore, that 'AlpineJohn's post is a touch on the pessimistic side.

- Dan
--
Secretary, London Transport Traction Group
lttgsecretary@gmail.com
www.lttractiongroup.co.uk

Yes, Indeed - It can wander quite happily around non-ATO parts of the LU network, and it does look rather beautiful inside and out. However, it is rather less than suitable for heritage railway use, Indeed it is completely un-usable in that environment without something else to essentially shunt it (As was done with the CHT '60TS back in 2014).

That isn't what we are trying to achieve here. Although we all have a particular soft spot for the '38TS I imagine we'd be doing the same if '59TS or '62TS were transferred to the Island way back when; We're looking to provide electrically powered tube stock for a non-electrified heritage railway. Indeed we believe this to be the first such conversion for any heritage EMU for a UK heritage line.

The fact that we have the support base and pledged funding that we do indicates that enough others also see that we're aiming for a worthwhile outcome here.

As for duplication, the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board has designated the best two sets. This means that they must be preserved and SWR must find suitable homes for them. With one of those units nearing the end of a full cosmetic, electrical and mechanical overhaul we feel that it would be a great shame if one of these trains couldn't have a living, active, preservation career rather than simply as hauled stock or a static exhibit.

Two of these trains will definitely be preserved, regardless of anything else.

On a personal basis I do intend donating to the Q Stock restoration at some point. I cannot speak for those others who have deemed our proposed offering to be worthy of their attention.

The paintwork probably has little effect on the actual functioning of the machinery.

The LNER connection fascinates me.
They were LNER-owned on paper; as far as I am aware they were 'common-user', as far as operating and maintenance was concerned.
In which case, was it just by chance that the Wight examples were LNER ones, or was there some factor which favoured those types?

I have now started a separate thread in the 'historical' section of the forum regarding alleged use of '38TS on the Central Line, particularly on the Ongar Branch. I had doubted it myself, but if anyone can provide some conclusive evidence of '38TS on that line (the Central as a whole, even better the branch) then I would be extremely interested. The relevant thread may be found here; districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/31710/1938-tube-stock-central-fiction

As it happens, it would appear that it was unlikely for the LNER units to have been intended to run on the Central as in the event it was decided to use cascaded Standard Stock (or so it has been said elsewhere on here) but it has, instead, been proven that from 1957-1960 a three car set of (non-LNER) 1938TS ran the Ongar Branch shuttles whilst one of the three '35TS units used on the line was away on test train duties.

They didn't run in LNER Livery; Although their official owner was the LNER, they were operated by LT in LT livery. The only mark of their ownership was a small cast plate attached to the solebar.

I admit that I think the LNER EMU livery would suit them, though.

I'm not very good, but our chairman's better. I might give it a go. Our application was submitted last night, so I'm trying to find things to do!

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