Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 24, 2022 11:43:43 GMT
Adding step-free access to the Central line platforms was investigated at least twice as part of the design works for this project and rejected on the basis that it would be a very large cost (iirc further new passages would have to be dug) for limited benefit given that relatively few people who need step-free access would be able to board the trains once they got to the platforms. Although some people would benefit (e.g those who can manage a single step but not a flight) it was decided that using the limited budget to make other station(s) step free would bring significantly more benefits.
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Post by ijmad on Oct 24, 2022 18:05:07 GMT
Adding step-free access to the Central line platforms was investigated at least twice as part of the design works for this project and rejected on the basis that it would be a very large cost (iirc further new passages would have to be dug) for limited benefit given that relatively few people who need step-free access would be able to board the trains once they got to the platforms. Although some people would benefit (e.g those who can manage a single step but not a flight) it was decided that using the limited budget to make other station(s) step free would bring significantly more benefits. Perhaps hearts and minds will be changed by sunnier economic conditions... someday. And when they are, maybe the spiral staircases will indeed be the perfect place for lifts.
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Post by davidr1986 on Oct 26, 2022 14:19:15 GMT
The escalators and travelators (Moving Walkways) between the northern and the central line are expected to open sometime on Friday
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 26, 2022 17:00:36 GMT
Perhaps hearts and minds will be changed by sunnier economic conditions... someday. And when they are, maybe the spiral staircases will indeed be the perfect place for lifts. At first I was hoping that both spiral staircases would remain open for full-time use by passengers who can walk, but on deeper reflection I see the logic in converting one or both of them to an accessibility lift. It would be far cheaper than building new passageways, etc. The only downside is that for much of the platform length the train to platform interface is simply too dangerous for an unaided wheelchair passenger - at some train doorways its barely OK for able-bodied passengers! Even able-bodied blind people are as risk at this set of platforms.
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Post by Chris L on Oct 26, 2022 22:25:31 GMT
Perhaps hearts and minds will be changed by sunnier economic conditions... someday. And when they are, maybe the spiral staircases will indeed be the perfect place for lifts. At first I was hoping that both spiral staircases would remain open for full-time use by passengers who can walk, but on deeper reflection I see the logic in converting one or both of them to an accessibility lift. It would be far cheaper than building new passageways, etc. The only downside is that for much of the platform length the train to platform interface is simply too dangerous for an unaided wheelchair passenger - at some train doorways its barely OK for able-bodied passengers! Even able-bodied blind people are as risk at this set of platforms. There isn't step free access to/from the two shafts so very little point in converting either of them for lifts.
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Post by jimbo on Oct 27, 2022 0:31:40 GMT
Plan was to fit active gap-fillers to curved platforms, with a trial due at Baker Street Met in 2020, but I guess this was lost in the Covid financial squeeze.
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Post by Chris L on Oct 27, 2022 6:25:07 GMT
Plan was to fit active gap-fillers to curved platforms, with a trial due at Baker Street Met in 2020, but I guess this was lost in the Covid financial squeeze. There are vertical gaps as well as horizontal. This would be hazardous for all users. As has been found on the Bakerloo line north of Queens Park getting wheelchairs into Tube stock is difficult. Potential for delays to services with trains stuck in tunnels in the event of failure would be enormous.
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brigham
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Post by brigham on Oct 27, 2022 7:24:32 GMT
There are vertical gaps as well as horizontal. This would be hazardous for all users. As has been found on the Bakerloo line north of Queens Park getting wheelchairs into Tube stock is difficult. Potential for delays to services with trains stuck in tunnels in the event of failure would be enormous. Have all alternatives been considered? Subsidised taxis available on demand might save much upheaval.
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Post by xplaistow on Oct 27, 2022 14:04:02 GMT
At first I was hoping that both spiral staircases would remain open for full-time use by passengers who can walk, but on deeper reflection I see the logic in converting one or both of them to an accessibility lift. It would be far cheaper than building new passageways, etc. The only downside is that for much of the platform length the train to platform interface is simply too dangerous for an unaided wheelchair passenger - at some train doorways its barely OK for able-bodied passengers! Even able-bodied blind people are as risk at this set of platforms. There isn't step free access to/from the two shafts so very little point in converting either of them for lifts. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a lift between the Central and the old passageway to the Northern provide a step-free route to the lift down to the DLR and, by extension, to the new entrance on Cannon Street? Of course, this is all a bit hypothetical because of the aforementioned gap issues and the difficulty of actually getting a lift into the confined space there.
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Post by ijmad on Oct 27, 2022 20:26:01 GMT
At first I was hoping that both spiral staircases would remain open for full-time use by passengers who can walk, but on deeper reflection I see the logic in converting one or both of them to an accessibility lift. It would be far cheaper than building new passageways, etc. The only downside is that for much of the platform length the train to platform interface is simply too dangerous for an unaided wheelchair passenger - at some train doorways its barely OK for able-bodied passengers! Even able-bodied blind people are as risk at this set of platforms. There isn't step free access to/from the two shafts so very little point in converting either of them for lifts. Surely far easier to dig down from an existing space than create an entirely new space. Anyway we should probably stop speculating I suppose! Anyone know when the travellator will actually open? I heard by end of the month but it's a hard one to search for given the various words used to refer to the moving walkway!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 27, 2022 20:31:21 GMT
Anyone know when the travellator will actually open? I heard by end of the month but it's a hard one to search for given the various words used to refer to the moving walkway! Just six posts back: The escalators and travelators (Moving Walkways) between the northern and the central line are expected to open sometime on Friday
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Post by ijmad on Oct 27, 2022 20:54:18 GMT
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Post by jimbo on Oct 27, 2022 23:24:56 GMT
Surely a time is coming when the sharply curved platforms at Bank will no longer be acceptable, and a solution will need to be found. A new Northern Line platform has just been provided at great cost on a diverted running line. Couldn't new straight Central Line platforms be constructed to the west under Poultry in the way that the Holborn platforms were once built around the existing running tunnels?
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Post by Chris L on Oct 28, 2022 5:49:37 GMT
Surely a time is coming when the sharply curved platforms at Bank will no longer be acceptable, and a solution will need to be found. A new Northern Line platform has just been provided at great cost on a diverted running line. Couldn't new straight Central Line platforms be constructed to the west under Poultry in the way that the Holborn platforms were once built around the existing running tunnels? Not quite as easy as you might think. The tunnels follow the road and then the platforms at St Paul's are on top of each other. Not a lot of space with premises having basements.
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Post by ijmad on Oct 28, 2022 10:47:08 GMT
Looks like the moving walkways and new escalators opened around 09:30 this morning, Geoff Marshall was first on the scene of course, tweet of his with some photos
It looks super impressive. A total game changer for those of us who regularly do this change at Bank. I used to do DLR to Central almost every morning years ago before the pandemic, I remember how crowded and awful it was cramming along the narrow corridors and up the spirals!
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 28, 2022 14:23:12 GMT
Surely a time is coming when the sharply curved platforms at Bank will no longer be acceptable, and a solution will need to be found. A new Northern Line platform has just been provided at great cost on a diverted running line. Couldn't new straight Central Line platforms be constructed to the west under Poultry in the way that the Holborn platforms were once built around the existing running tunnels? I once asked a similar type of question regarding Custom House and why there is not Stratford style cross platform interchange between the DLR and Liz line. I was told that the way the Central line tunnels etc were constructed around a live railway would not be allowed nowadays. On the generic topic of sharply curved platforms, Embankment and Waterloo come to mind as stations where the same issues apply. I feel sure that some subsurface route stations also have this issue
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Post by Chris L on Oct 28, 2022 18:33:16 GMT
Looks like the moving walkways and new escalators opened around 09:30 this morning, Geoff Marshall was first on the scene of course, tweet of his with some photos
It looks super impressive. A total game changer for those of us who regularly do this change at Bank. I used to do DLR to Central almost every morning years ago before the pandemic, I remember how crowded and awful it was cramming along the narrow corridors and up the spirals! The new links are superb.
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Post by jimbo on Oct 28, 2022 19:35:28 GMT
Surely a time is coming when the sharply curved platforms at Bank will no longer be acceptable, and a solution will need to be found. A new Northern Line platform has just been provided at great cost on a diverted running line. Couldn't new straight Central Line platforms be constructed to the west under Poultry in the way that the Holborn platforms were once built around the existing running tunnels? I once asked a similar type of question regarding Custom House and why there is not Stratford style cross platform interchange between the DLR and Liz line. I was told that the way the Central line tunnels etc were constructed around a live railway would not be allowed nowadays. On the generic topic of sharply curved platforms, Embankment and Waterloo come to mind as stations where the same issues apply. I feel sure that some subsurface route stations also have this issue Kennington junctions for Battersea were just constructed around the operational railway, although Bank Northern new connections were done during a blockade using a different technique.
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Post by ijmad on Nov 8, 2022 17:07:25 GMT
I walked past the new Cannon Street entrance at the weekend. Still seems like a fair bit left to do. Not least of which is filling in the gargantuan hole in the ground behind the station building. I assume that's not actually a prerequisite for opening as I would guess it's for the piles / foundations / basement of the new block that's going on top.
Still, it does seem like a very large hole.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 8, 2022 21:45:11 GMT
Kennington junctions for Battersea were just constructed around the operational railway, although Bank Northern new connections were done during a blockade using a different technique. I feel sure that I read somewhere that it was possible to close the Kennington loop at certain times, so that construction staff were not too close to either live rails or moving trains.
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Chris M
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Posts: 19,781
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Post by Chris M on Nov 8, 2022 22:27:28 GMT
I walked past the new Cannon Street entrance at the weekend. Still seems like a fair bit left to do. Not least of which is filling in the gargantuan hole in the ground behind the station building. I assume that's not actually a prerequisite for opening as I would guess it's for the piles / foundations / basement of the new block that's going on top. The note on the newly released tube map strongly implies that the entrance is due to open in "late December 2022". Given that this just text in a notes panel this would be very easy to change right before going to press, so can be taken as an up-to-date expectation.
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Post by ijmad on Dec 30, 2022 23:50:52 GMT
So did the new entrance open? Or has it been delayed?
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Post by routew15 on Dec 31, 2022 1:12:49 GMT
It has not opened and is now expected for early 2023.
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Feb 27, 2023 8:33:21 GMT
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Post by ijmad on Feb 27, 2023 14:17:00 GMT
Looks fantastic. It's going to make a lot of journeys easier for those of us who commute to or through the City.
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Post by jimbo on Feb 27, 2023 19:10:49 GMT
Ianvisits says "The new entrance is pretty much opposite Cannon Street station," and yet the final photo of the original set shows a sign to the right of the street entrance directing the public to Monument station for the District and Circle Lines!
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Post by ijmad on Feb 27, 2023 19:23:06 GMT
X2K9 has put a 20 minute long tour of the new entrance up on YouTube. Some nice relaxed content to watch during dinner!
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Post by ijmad on Feb 27, 2023 19:38:30 GMT
Ianvisits says "The new entrance is pretty much opposite Cannon Street station," and yet the final photo of the original set shows a sign to the right of the street entrance directing the public to Monument station for the District and Circle Lines! It's not really 'opposite' and actually it's still further than Monument entrance to entrance (especially given Cannon Street's tube entrance is on its western corner), but the real question is, will regular commuters take a little extra distance for a nicer experience? Will passengers who want to travel West on the Circle/District walk West to Cannon Street to avoid the sense of doubling back? Will passengers who previously stayed on the Northern Line to London Bridge, only to board an ex-Cannon-Street service, change here instead? I think the answer will be a resounding yes.
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Feb 27, 2023 20:21:51 GMT
Geoff Marshall has released his video: He's also talked a little bit about the Cannon Street proximity at the start. But in an older video, he finds: - The Walbrook entrance (Bank) is about 100m from Cannon Street
- The new entrance is about 70m from the nearest Monument entrance
- The new entrance is about 200m from Cannon Street
As ijmad says, there are other factors as well. I believe the Walbrook entrance is on the Waterloo & City side of the station so, even though it is closer to Cannon Street, anyone using the DLR or Northern will definitely use the new entrance. If anyone is interested, the video also includes a nice diagram with all of the entrances of nearby stations (Mansion House, Cannon Street, Bank, and Monument) at 1:20.
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Post by ianr on Feb 27, 2023 21:42:55 GMT
Ianvisits says "The new entrance is pretty much opposite Cannon Street station," and yet the final photo of the original set shows a sign to the right of the street entrance directing the public to Monument station for the District and Circle Lines! I used to work in the building opposite that new entrance & it is definitely not opposite Cannon Street Station and is much closer to Monument station.
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