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Post by waysider on May 26, 2020 19:47:39 GMT
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Post by jimbo on May 27, 2020 0:38:41 GMT
Thanks for these pics. Emphasises how narrow these platforms are, not just for Northern line passengers, but also as the interchange route between District/Circle lines and Central line! A wonder it has been accepted for so long, and at last will be relieved when this becomes the interchange route only, with a new southbound platform.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 27, 2020 1:49:28 GMT
Well for the past 30 years until a few months ago the Central-SSR interchange has been signed via the DLR platform level most of the time (unless you were at the entrance to or on the Northern line platforms), since then it has been at street level (as it was when the escalators to the DLR were refurbished a few years ago). The reason it's been accepted for so long is that there wasn't any alternative until the major engineering project to divert the southbound running tunnel and expand the station was practical and affordable - it's a much bigger and more complicated job than Angel was due to all the other lines in the area and the constrained, historic nature of what's on the surface (not to mention foundations and bank vaults). As best I can tell from a quick google, preliminary design work started circa 2008-2010, draft designs were put out to consultation with construction firms in 2012, which resulted in major changes. Construction started in about 2016 and, pre-Covid, was expected to open in 2022. This 2018 article from ianvisits has a lot of interesting detail |
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Post by davidr1986 on May 27, 2020 11:38:20 GMT
The DLR concourse is also split in half to allow triple escalators up to the new concourse, which is why the Central Line interchange is signed via street level. Both Northern Line platforms sit (Mostly) on top of platform 9 of the DLR so i guess the Northern platforms will effectively 'Mirror' the DLR platforms in terms of width
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Post by spsmiler on May 27, 2020 23:03:18 GMT
I feel sure that the Northern line platforms were reduced in width (albeit only a little) when the DLR was built - primarily on either side of the passageways to / from the DLR which are located between the two Northern line platforms
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Post by Chris M on May 28, 2020 0:04:38 GMT
Possibly by a few inches, mainly with the walls becoming straight rather than curved.
Also it's worth noting that the DLR and Northern line platforms are not on the same alignment - at the Monument end the centres are approximately aligned, but at the Central line end they're almost side by side with the DLR slightly west of the Northern. Although at the Central line end the stairs to the Northern line and escalators to the DLR are parallel, the DLR's central passage is not straight to the escalators. It used to be clear to see that in the floor tiles near the bottom of the escalators, but I don't know if you still can with all the work.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 29, 2020 17:44:16 GMT
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Post by Chris W on Oct 29, 2020 20:10:48 GMT
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Post by rapidtransitman on Oct 29, 2020 21:12:08 GMT
Referring to the tunnel diagram in DStock7080's post, will the original southbound tunnel segment north of the platforms be used for stabling trains (ie for faulty train storage, or early morning or PAX buster train stabling)?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Oct 29, 2020 21:21:08 GMT
No. There is no intention to alter the track layout, other than to divert the southbound track.
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Post by Chris M on Oct 29, 2020 21:36:58 GMT
I think some of the space will be used for storage (presumably p-way related stuff at the junction end and station related stuff at the station end) but I don't recall seeing any plans other than that.
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Post by jimbo on Oct 29, 2020 23:44:12 GMT
If tunnelling is complete, presumably step-plate junctions are complete with old southbound line at each end. Can anything be seen from passing trains? |
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Post by alpinejohn on Oct 30, 2020 10:14:06 GMT
Looking at that schematic whilst general storage and/or reversing siding uses are not mutually exclusive, I doubt there is any spare cash to keep the abandoned section of southbound tunnel available as an occasional use siding.
Thanks to Coronavirus, Cross Rail overruns... TFL's finances are now in a real hole, so the best I think we can hope for is that money will still be available for the old tunnels to be cleared of track to allow some extra storage.
Whilst a siding might have occasional value to store a defective train, it would of course entail the cost of installing an additional set of points signalling changes and ongoing maintenance costs, which are likely to be far more than simply rerouting services via the new platform using plain line track at the step plate junctions during a short possession hopefully sometime in 2022.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 30, 2020 10:17:59 GMT
Would the abandoned length(s) of tunnel even be long enough to accommodate a train?
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 30, 2020 15:48:39 GMT
Would the abandoned length(s) of tunnel even be long enough to accommodate a train? Comfortably so given that the abandoned likely exceeds 400m and a 1995 stock only comes in at around 106m. But the sheer expense of rigging up a cripple siding + supportive infrastructure in return for just a couple trains worth of stabling space within this complex would be a non-starter. |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 31, 2020 15:01:12 GMT
Would the abandoned length(s) of tunnel even be long enough to accommodate a train? Comfortably so given that the abandoned likely exceeds 400m and a 1995 stock only comes in at around 106m. But the sheer expense of rigging up a cripple siding + supportive infrastructure in return for just a couple trains worth of stabling space within this complex would be a non-starter. I assume that there will not be any form of north / south bound crossover, so even if a cripple siding was installed it would only be available to southbound trains? Even so, its a shame to not have this facility, as an emergency refuge when a train has a failure and therefore is in walking speed mode would be useful. Especially if this happens just at the start of the rush hour! |
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Post by DWS on Oct 31, 2020 15:07:45 GMT
Comfortably so given that the abandoned likely exceeds 400m and a 1995 stock only comes in at around 106m. But the sheer expense of rigging up a cripple siding + supportive infrastructure in return for just a couple trains worth of stabling space within this complex would be a non-starter. I assume that there will not be any form of north / south bound crossover, so even if a cripple siding was installed it would only be available to southbound trains? Even so, its a shame to not have this facility, as an emergency refuge when a train has a failure and therefore is in walking speed mode would be useful. Especially if this happens just at the start of the rush hour! It’s not value for money, plus TfL is strapped for cash. |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 31, 2020 15:39:30 GMT
Whilst I understand the present-moment financial situation the cost of the disruption to - and damage to the good name of - local employers would likely exceed the cost of the track etc., works - especially if it makes Bank staff unable to get to work 'on time' in the morning because of delays due to a train blocking the line by travelling at walking pace!
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Post by Tom on Oct 31, 2020 15:48:35 GMT
There's a crossover available at Moorgate one station away for turning a defective train back. It wouldn't meet the cost/benefit test.
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Post by jimbo on Nov 23, 2020 18:50:22 GMT
If tunnelling is complete, presumably step-plate junctions are complete with old southbound line at each end. Can anything be seen from passing trains? "All tunnelling excavation works have now completed except Northern line southbound running tunnels." p.20 Finance Report Period 7, 2020/21 |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 13, 2020 12:35:46 GMT
Of course, there was a crossover at London Bridge which disappeared when the southbound line was diverted during the JLE station expansion works.
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Post by ducatisti on Jan 20, 2021 10:44:14 GMT
I wonder how they are getting on?
Whilst Cov-19 is obviously a problem, the (hopefully) temporary drop in ridership would seem to be a good time to have closures etc.
IIRC, the Battersea extension can't/won't open until Bank is complete - or has that now changed?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 20, 2021 11:51:07 GMT
I wonder how they are getting on? Whilst Cov-19 is obviously a problem, the (hopefully) temporary drop in ridership would seem to be a good time to have closures etc. IIRC, the Battersea extension can't/won't open until Bank is complete - or has that now changed? Line closures in that area planned for February, May Bank holiday, June and July. These two projects are not linked, you maybe thinking of Camden Town v. Line split? |
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Post by Chris L on Jan 20, 2021 13:18:51 GMT
I wonder how they are getting on? Whilst Cov-19 is obviously a problem, the (hopefully) temporary drop in ridership would seem to be a good time to have closures etc. IIRC, the Battersea extension can't/won't open until Bank is complete - or has that now changed? Line closures in that area planned for February, May Bank holiday, June and July. These two projects are not linked, you maybe thinking of Camden Town v. Line split? There was a desire that Crossrail should be open before the blockade of the Bank branch happened. Obviously this couldn't happen. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Jan 20, 2021 16:44:40 GMT
"There was a desire that Crossrail should be open before the blockade of the Bank branch happened.
Obviously this couldn't happen."
Assuming TFL are not intending on waiting for Godot - then with passenger levels already much lower than usual other lines should have capacity to handle diverted passenger flows without Liz-Line.
I don't see why the blockade cannot proceed as soon as the new platform and related infrastructure etc is basically ready to be connected up - which sounds like it could be very soon.
Sadly if they insist on waiting for the core to open, all that investment could well be sitting around unused until mid decade at the earliest. Time to bite the bullet and just get on with it.
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Post by North End on Jan 20, 2021 16:59:42 GMT
"There was a desire that Crossrail should be open before the blockade of the Bank branch happened. Obviously this couldn't happen." Assuming TFL are not intending on waiting for Godot - then with passenger levels already much lower than usual other lines should have capacity to handle diverted passenger flows without Liz-Line. I don't see why the blockade cannot proceed as soon as the new platform and related infrastructure etc is basically ready to be connected up - which sounds like it could be very soon. Sadly if they insist on waiting for the core to open, all that investment could well be sitting around unused until mid decade at the earliest. Time to bite the bullet and just get on with it. Yes from what I’ve been hearing any previous intention to wait for Crossrail before doing the Bank blockade seems to have fallen by the wayside. With reduced passenger numbers it’s probably less of an issue in any case. They can’t wait, as it impinges on Battersea too, that more or less physically cannot be open during the Bank works as it would overload the CX branch in terms of train throughput. From what I gather Battersea is still more or less viable for an opening in line with what has been stated. Whether this turns out to be “we *can* open it if necessary” rather than an actual opening remains to be seen. One issue I could see arising is staff training, still nothing started on that score, and Highgate is in competition with other control rooms for being allocated new control staff. Original plans were Battersea was going to require going from 4 to 5 signal desks (returning to what used to be the case at Cobourg Street), however one struggles to see how this can be achieved in the short term with the training backlog across the board, and the fact that other rooms have vacancies. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 20, 2021 19:12:33 GMT
According to Underground News Jan 2021, Battersea remains on time for Autumn 2021 opening, whilst Bank closure has slipped again due to COVID delays to October 2021 - January 2022.
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Post by North End on Jan 20, 2021 19:20:24 GMT
According to Underground News Jan 2021, Battersea remains on time for Autumn 2021 opening, whilst Bank closure has slipped again due to COVID delays to October 2021 - January 2022. I suspect it may end up being a case of whilst Battersea may be able to open from a technical point of view in Autumn, I don’t think it will in practice. If we work on the basis that Bank finishes in January 2022, then this would make it feasible for Battersea to open fairly soon after that. This would also give some additional time for training, which (personal view) I can’t see being completed by Autumn especially with Covid still going on. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Apr 1, 2021 12:05:02 GMT
So I assume the City branch closure from 2 - 5 April which is listed in the latest TFL weekend travel email has nothing to do with opening up the new platform at Bank?
Shame as a 4 day closure should have been enough to lift the old track and connect it up to the new platform. From here on in, passenger levels seem likely to be on a rising trend and deferring the new Bank platform opening until next January seems counter productive.
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Post by goldenarrow on Apr 1, 2021 12:50:54 GMT
So I assume the City branch closure from 2 - 5 April which is listed in the latest TFL weekend travel email has nothing to do with opening up the new platform at Bank? A closure from Charing Cross / Euston (Bank Branch) to Stockwell would imply Northern Line Extension related works requiring Kennington to be under possession. I’m guessing there is also work going on Bank otherwise Moorgate could have been used to turn the service. Four days is simply not long enough to achieve what will be required during the closure of the Bank Branch for the new platform. The prolonged closure of the platforms at Tottenham Court Road springs to mind as a project of similar complexities working with tunnels. |
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