|
|
Post by Alight on Sept 25, 2024 18:26:55 GMT
Siemens did preliminary work on new trains for the four lines in the contract, and planned a standard train apart from the length of the cab cars. Funding restrictions meant that the current Central Line trains needed life extension works before new trains could be afforded. That seems to remain the plan, although progress on the CLIP works appears slow. Could a new funding agreement mean that CLIP is abandoned in favour of a new fleet? Wouldn't that be an excellent idea. CLIP is just taking too long, it would make more sense to abandon it in favour of a new fleet. Also means the hot Central line will benefit from air-conditioned trains sooner. I was on the Piccadilly line yesterday and couldn't help but think how cool it is. Probably because I'm so used to the Victoria and Central lines. Will the new Siemens trains generate more heat, hence meaning we feel the benefit more from the air conditioning the new trains will bring about? |
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
|
Post by Tom on Sept 25, 2024 20:30:59 GMT
Wouldn't that be an excellent idea. CLIP is just taking too long, it would make more sense to abandon it in favour of a new fleet. Great idea - where is the money coming from, and how would you propose to fit a new train with 1990s electronics for the ATO and ATP? |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 25, 2024 21:17:37 GMT
Was this done in Paris when a line was recently converted to driverless? Similar to how Hong Kong MTR retrofitted platform doors on most of the network, closing individual platforms for a few days. |
|
|
|
Post by Alight on Sept 25, 2024 21:23:10 GMT
Wouldn't that be an excellent idea. CLIP is just taking too long, it would make more sense to abandon it in favour of a new fleet. Great idea - where is the money coming from, and how would you propose to fit a new train with 1990s electronics for the ATO and ATP? It will have to be done eventually... |
|
|
|
Post by xtmw on Sept 25, 2024 21:47:06 GMT
Wouldn't that be an excellent idea. CLIP is just taking too long, it would make more sense to abandon it in favour of a new fleet. Also means the hot Central line will benefit from air-conditioned trains sooner. I actually think someone said this on here (not 100%) From a legal point of view, contracts have been agreed etc so it wouldn't be economically viable to cancel the CLIP. Do you really think the 92s could last until new trains come in? I'll leave it there. |
|
|
|
Post by Alight on Sept 25, 2024 22:25:10 GMT
Indeed, what's done is done and there's no going back. However, I worry by the time CLIP is complete (several years time based on the current), it will be close to that 40-year mark that is *usually* when stock is meant to be replaced.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 25, 2024 22:43:39 GMT
All the work on the platform edge would obviously need to be done in engineering hours or other line closures. It may or may not be possible for trains to run through with the platforms closed to passengers at other times. At stations like Westminster it would obviously be easy to ensure no passenger access to the platform, at stations like Canary Wharf this would be more difficult and may or may not be possible to do safely.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Sept 26, 2024 0:37:58 GMT
The spacing of doors on the new trains does not only have to fit along the train in the open and closed positions. These trains are designed to work with Platform Edge Doors, should they be fitted at some time in their lives. PEDs are normally wider than the train doors by 300mm each leaf to allow for a train stopping tolerance of ±300mm, and PEDs open fully so that no part obstructs the aperture. The NTfL Rolling Stock Technical Specification of 2014 gave plenty of details.
The width of a pair of PEDs will be wider than the aperture so that the trailing edge of a closed PED overlaps the fixed frame. There will also be a space allowance behind the trailing edge of an open PED to accommodate operating mechanism and structure, the dimension of the overlap and an allowance to prevent two PEDs from touching each other when fully opened (taking into account platform curvatures). The total allowance for these is 200mm for each leaf.
The minimum spacing of PEDs on the platform and train doors is therefore calculated from the width of the train door, e.g. for the new trains with 1700mm doors, door spacing = 5000mm i.e. a train door opening of 1700mm will require to be spaced at a minimum PED spacing of 5000mm.
The location of the end passenger doors shall be sufficiently far away from the end of the train such that the PEDs at the extreme ends of the platform can open fully without the trailing end of the door touching the platform end-wall. For a train with 1700mm wide doors for the Piccadilly line, the maximum distance between first and last door centres can be no more than 101.0m.
Similar considerations will be required to construct a PED line suitable to match both old and new Jubilee Line trains.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Oct 1, 2024 8:33:51 GMT
I was on the Piccadilly line yesterday and couldn't help but think how cool it is. Probably because I'm so used to the Victoria and Central lines. Will the new Siemens trains generate more heat, hence meaning we feel the benefit more from the air conditioning the new trains will bring about? I presume that the new Picc trains will generate less heat since they are lighter and use 20 per cent less energy. However, the air conditioning will expel heat from the trains into the tunnels, and ventilation systems need to be boosted to deal with this. Also, the service will become more frequent, bringing more passengers, and leading to more heat in the system. |
|
|
|
Post by burkitt on Oct 3, 2024 8:34:32 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by 100andthirty on Oct 3, 2024 11:23:05 GMT
No doubt lots of lobbying to release Bakerloo order!
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Oct 3, 2024 11:44:53 GMT
The Picc build is now stretched to 2028 to spread the funding available, so a Bakerloo build would likely be 2029/30!
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Oct 3, 2024 23:44:04 GMT
some of the tweets I saw today on this topic - I could not resist replying to one of them!
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Oct 5, 2024 0:11:36 GMT
The video in the Standard report shows clearly the coupling between the cars at 0:55. Also at 02:58 shows how the cars are made up into a train. Looks like it will be difficult in a depot, say an A end and D end of two trains could be made into one serviceable train. Probably require return to Siemens for reassembly:  © Siemens 2024 The B-roll below shows the coupler on an intermediate car which has only a single ring, which fits between these two rings on the wheeled cars! [The password is also supplied on the website page.] They are mainly shorter cars being assembled in the shed! Most cars also show a high-level coupling at roof level intended to reduce body roll of the wheel-less cars. |
|
|
|
Post by pastusobrown on Oct 7, 2024 5:01:22 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Oct 7, 2024 7:37:16 GMT
photo appears to show a partially assembled car, with the middle far doorway to be seen, but still awaiting the far end panel to the right side of the photo. So, each car side must arrive from Europe in several panels, enabling them to be packed in a compressed space. This car also doesn't have the body end fitted yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by 100andthirty on Oct 8, 2024 10:46:26 GMT
The cars arrive a painted shells. Unlike 2009 tube stock, S stock and other products from Derby, where the undergrames sides, ends androofs were assembled with huckbolts (or similar) these cars are fully welded, and all welding is done in Vienna, prior to painting,of course!
|
|
|
|
Post by anthony262 on Oct 8, 2024 12:58:21 GMT
Heard we might see a green light given in the budget for the bakerloo line to get an order for new trains to replace the 72 stock
|
|
|
|
Post by tomd on Oct 9, 2024 10:28:11 GMT
That would be a pleasant surprise for sure.
If that’s the case, I’d be most interested to see what they do end up doing about the depot situation on the Bakerloo line with a changeover to a new fleet.
|
|
gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 202
Member is Online
|
Post by gefw on Oct 9, 2024 11:50:37 GMT
photo appears to show a partially assembled car, with the middle far doorway to be seen, but still awaiting the far end panel to the right side of the photo. So, each car side must arrive from Europe in several panels, enabling them to be packed in a compressed space. It seems like this is a mixture of optical perspective of the photo plus the likilyhood that the "coupling" is a large element and may be a significant part of the end of the car ( fitted after arrival at Goole?) |
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Oct 10, 2024 19:59:17 GMT
The cars arrive a painted shells. Unlike 2009 tube stock, S stock and other products from Derby, where the undergrames sides, ends androofs were assembled with huckbolts (or similar) these cars are fully welded, and all welding is done in Vienna, prior to painting,of course! So how do the complete body shells get to Goole? By road, or on a train? They must be seen somewhere enroute. The plan is to complete a train in a fortnight, or almost a car a day. I would have thought if the shell is brought from Europe, they would have included the ends to keep it rigid in transit. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Oct 11, 2024 10:41:52 GMT
Was this done in Paris when a line was recently converted to driverless? Similar to how Hong Kong MTR retrofitted platform doors on most of the network, closing individual platforms for a few days. Previous work on the Underground indicated that many platform edges were not strong enough to support platform edge doors. |
|
|
|
Post by 100andthirty on Oct 11, 2024 11:46:38 GMT
Similar to how Hong Kong MTR retrofitted platform doors on most of the network, closing individual platforms for a few days. Previous work on the Underground indicated that many platform edges were not strong enough to support platform edge doors. They do come with the ends - only the ends have a rather large hole in them for the gangway. As far as I recall, none of the all aluminium tube cars have had structural ends. |
|
|
|
Post by ted672 on Oct 11, 2024 21:36:35 GMT
So how do the complete body shells get to Goole? By road, or on a train? They must be seen somewhere enroute. The plan is to complete a train in a fortnight, or almost a car a day. I would have thought if the shell is brought from Europe, they would have included the ends to keep it rigid in transit. If the construction of the new London Overground trains as seen by Greg Wallace is anything to go by, the side panels could well arrive "flat-packed" in containers to be fitted to floors and ceilings that arrive on low-loaders, either road or rail. If this is the case, there would be little, if anything, to see of the parts arriving at Goole. |
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Oct 12, 2024 0:02:46 GMT
photo appears to show a partially assembled car, with the middle far doorway to be seen, but still awaiting the far end panel to the right side of the photo. So, each car side must arrive from Europe in several panels, enabling them to be packed in a compressed space. This car also doesn't have the body end fitted yet. I come back to this photo, which shows the chassis to the right end without the far panel to form an arch shape, and without the body end fitted. If the car shells are delivered fully welded, as reported above, then this is a casualty repair job; either damaged on its delivery journey, or more likely within Goole since the doors are already fitted. |
|
|
|
Post by alang on Oct 12, 2024 9:23:02 GMT
I am afraid you are misinterpreting that photograph. It was taken with an extreme wide-angle lens, which means that there are major distortions at the edges. This is clearly seen on the right-hand set of steps, where the parallel ends of the rectangular base appear to run from bottom left to top right at the left-hand end, and bottom right to top left at the right. The right-hand car end is about in line with the two jacks beneath the steps, and so is (apparently) canted back behind the body side. The body end is there, but simply not visible.
|
|
|
|
Post by burkitt on Oct 12, 2024 16:42:32 GMT
The carriage in question looks unusually short because it is one of the segments with no wheels, supported by the vehicles to either side.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Oct 12, 2024 18:53:06 GMT
Thanks alang . Makes sense now. The camera never lies. |
|
|
|
Post by exwatfordian on Oct 13, 2024 12:25:59 GMT
Apparently a New Tube stock unit has arrived at Dollands Moor yesterday. Unsure if this is 100% true or when the next move into London will commence.
|
|
|
|
Post by grumpycat on Oct 14, 2024 7:08:54 GMT
Apparently a New Tube stock unit has arrived at Dollands Moor yesterday. Unsure if this is 100% true or when the next move into London will commence. judging by the videos on YouTube this morning indeed so. Now the proper countdown has started for the 73s retirement |
|
