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Post by d7666 on Feb 12, 2024 15:56:07 GMT
The Central Line planned 11-car articulated trains will feature only 12 bogies compared with the current 8-car trains with 16 bogies, so a 25% weight saving on bogies! That will provide quite a power saving. Now that the prototype new train is designed built and under test, would be interesting if we had any energy use/efficiency stats (akin to the "urban cycle" MPG test of a car) to enable a comparison with the current stocks ie if they were replaced with a "like for like" service pattern/timetable. Is it then reasonable to assume/believe that circa 80% of that net energy consumed by a train (allowing credits for regen energy) results in some form of heat generated? Certainly must know by now the energy consumption of the Air Con/cooling system (When running at max capacity) of the new train. All of this on energy consumption and/or savings and/or auxiliaries, and impact on trackside DC kit, will have been done by simulation before they even start cutting metal; indeed, much of it is probably in the requirements at ITT and specified to be in the suppliers tender response before tender won and order placed. It always appears to come as a surprise to many that we do not do things like order new trains - or new anythings - then figure out the problems. We don't build a train with air-con then wonder if it works. There are all sorts of international and national and UIC and EN standards etc, some legislated for, some recommended practice,to cover all this. The quote " .............. as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. ...... " seems to apply. LU knows the known knowns and the known unknowns; what /does/ happen is the unknown unknowns, and, truly, something is included in original scope and ITT, then the spreadsheet cell pushing mandarins cut into action and cut out or descope thence introduce so called "new" problems that would have been eliminated as a known known before they opened excel. One also has to remember a lot of all this is clouded in contractual secrecy. What often happens is an allegedly "new" unknown eventually appears to those not in the secret circle. This business about having to trim Picc. platform edges I will say 99.99% certainty was a project known - it is when it leaks out to a wider audience the speculation and adverse comment appears as if it was an unknown.
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Post by Chris W on Feb 14, 2024 19:21:36 GMT
LU knows the known knowns and the known unknowns; what /does/ happen is the unknown unknowns, and, truly, something is included in original scope and ITT, then the spreadsheet cell pushing mandarins cut into action and cut out or descope thence introduce so called "new" problems that would have been eliminated as a known known before they opened excel. One also has to remember a lot of all this is clouded in contractual secrecy. What often happens is an allegedly "new" unknown eventually appears to those not in the secret circle. This business about having to trim Picc. platform edges I will say 99.99% certainty was a project known - it is when it leaks out to a wider audience the speculation and adverse comment appears as if it was an unknown. Much of this will be discovered this Summer onwards, when the first train is due to be delivered to LU for testing purposes Whilst the first couple of pre-prodction Victoria Line 09TS units were scrapped and new examples built (it was found to be more cost effective based upon the high number of modifications needed), currently Siemens Mobility doesn't expect any pre-productions trains to need replacing. [LU World Special: Rail Express - January 2024]
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Post by ijmad on Feb 16, 2024 13:01:32 GMT
One also has to remember a lot of all this is clouded in contractual secrecy. What often happens is an allegedly "new" unknown eventually appears to those not in the secret circle. This business about having to trim Picc. platform edges I will say 99.99% certainty was a project known - it is when it leaks out to a wider audience the speculation and adverse comment appears as if it was an unknown. You're probably right although this sort of thing does go wrong from time to time. "Nearly 2,000 new trains ordered by the national railroad, SNCF, are too wide for many French railroad stations. So to accommodate the new trains, hundreds of platforms at railroad stations will have to reconfigured."And this was a genuine mistake. Not saying that' what's happened here, mind, just saying it wouldn't be unprecedented.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 17, 2024 11:16:22 GMT
"Nearly 2,000 new trains ordered by the national railroad, SNCF, are too wide for many French railroad stations. So to accommodate the new trains, hundreds of platforms at railroad stations will have to reconfigured." I'm sure this has happened before - didn't the slightly longer 1973ts tube cars have some gauging issues when brand new? (caused by sharp curves in tunnels?) And .... well before any of us here were around, there was the issue of the Central London Railway electric locomotives being too tall for the tunnels!!
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towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,886
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Post by towerman on Feb 17, 2024 12:43:52 GMT
I thought the problem with the locos was too much unsprung weight causing bad vibration to surface buildings.
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Post by burkitt on Feb 17, 2024 19:07:07 GMT
The excess height resulted in reconstruction of both track and locos which reduced the effect of the suspension and exacerbated the issues caused by the weight.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,235
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 17, 2024 23:13:20 GMT
"Nearly 2,000 new trains ordered by the national railroad, SNCF, are too wide for many French railroad stations. So to accommodate the new trains, hundreds of platforms at railroad stations will have to reconfigured." I'm sure this has happened before... Yes: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64717605
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Post by jetblast787 on Feb 19, 2024 0:36:15 GMT
One also has to remember a lot of all this is clouded in contractual secrecy. What often happens is an allegedly "new" unknown eventually appears to those not in the secret circle. This business about having to trim Picc. platform edges I will say 99.99% certainty was a project known - it is when it leaks out to a wider audience the speculation and adverse comment appears as if it was an unknown. As someone who is directly working on this package of works, I can safely say that yes, it has been something we've been working on for the past few years that will come to fruition soon. I'm not going to go into details for obvious reasons, however, there is a presentation in the public domain about this at the Institution of Civil Engineers in 2022 which highlights the challenges we're working to resolve
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Post by xtmw on Apr 12, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
What's the plan with the NTFL? When the time comes for the Jubilee and Northern lines, will they be replaced with the NTFL? Is the plan to standardise fleet across the entire network? (except for SSR lines)
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Post by jimbo on Apr 13, 2024 0:02:07 GMT
The plan for the past ten years was to buy a fleet of standard design for four lines, with Siemens winning the contract. Money was only available for the Piccadilly Line order, with options remaining for the others. The current hope is for funding for the Bakerloo Line but, with the Central Line fleet upgrade now expected to last 15 years, it is likely the contract will expire before a further order is made. New tenders will need to be called for other lines, which may propose alternate layouts and designs. Likely the intention will be to again spread the next standard design over a number of lines.
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Post by jimbo on Apr 16, 2024 20:43:59 GMT
The pre-production trains are expected in London mid-year, last I heard. Any news of them preparing for the move? Will they be based at Ruislip depot? What are they going to be doing over the next 12 months before entry into service?
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Post by jetblast787 on Apr 17, 2024 11:37:50 GMT
The pre-production trains are expected in London mid-year, last I heard. Any news of them preparing for the move? Will they be based at Ruislip depot? What are they going to be doing over the next 12 months before entry into service? Short answer: Testing and commissioning Longer answer: There's is a lot of infrastructure work being completed to enable the passage of the new train as well as testing. The most important interface in any railway is the interface between the train and passengers, the PTI, hence there will be a large focus to ensure the railway is as safe as possible before the train is put into service. Alongside that there will be driver training and familiarisation.
The train will be delivered to Ruislip as its the only convenient location to transfer from NR land, most likely in one piece given the articulated nature of the train.
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Post by starlight73 on Apr 29, 2024 19:48:03 GMT
Long grey boards that say “NOT IN USE” have appeared at some Piccadilly line stations. These might be stopping marker boards for the 2024 stock?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 29, 2024 19:55:06 GMT
They are.
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