Fare disparities LO/LU

Also why fares are higher and Over-60 passes are not accepted before 0930 on most TOC-operated routes.

Considering that Chingford line is Overground, which is for ticketing purposes is fully a National Rail concern - there's no need for a parallel NR services.

It’s a point lots of people (including quite a few on this fourm) fail to appreciate - that despite all the ‘Overground’ branding (and TfLs attempts to act as though the national rail network doesn’t exist publicity wise), the transfer of said ‘Overground’ services to TfL from the DfT is contingent on certain things being done (and continuing to be done) as the DfT dictate.

It is a legal requirement (of the deal between the DfT and TfL) that ‘Overground’ fares must broadly in line with national fares policy (e.g. year on year increases, no ‘cliff edges’ at / close to the TfL boundary, no reduction in the revues accruing to other TOCs as part of the Travelcard scheme, etc. Yes TfL have some wiggle room - but due to differing fares polices between the DfT and TfL that room is reducing year on year.

Incidentally it’s being part of the national rail setup that has saved quite a few ticket offices as under the 1994 privatisation legislation there are a lot more legally mandated hoops that must be jumped through compared to ‘pure’ TfL operations like the Tube.

Were TfL to try and do there own thing then powers exist for the DfT to take back control of the Overground concession - though obviously relations would have to have completely broken down for this event to take place.

As such Mayor Khan’s ‘fare freeze’ is impossible to implement on the Overground - if he kept fares low on the Chingford branch say then you would get a ‘cliff edge’ situation emerging between Walthamstow and Hackney Downs (the later being shared with the DfT run Grater Anglia franchise who are expected to increase fares up to 1% above inflation every year by said DfT).

I do wish they'd abolish the fare zones on maps. Whatever use they might supposedly have as a general guide is negated by the fact that NR services run on a very different scale. In fact, you could probably just as well guess from looking at how long a journey is on the map that longer=more expensive in general. And if that's all people get from the zonal markings...

Someone with a better grasp of all this will know forsure, but presumably that is all accounted for when the spoils of the pot for travelcard/weekely capped use are divided up between the operators?

The value of showing the zones is in knowing where a travelcard will be valid.

Once the Elizabeth line opens fully, is the fare structure going to change to the LU model? By naming the line like a London Underground line it's bound to cause confusion if it is not.

It'll have to in Central London, surely, as it'll be impossible to tell whether someone has travelled on the Elizabeth Line or LU services until someone has travelled east of Stratford / west of Ealing unless separate gatelines are to be installed?
How is Thameslink fares structured within the core? Do I recall LU fares applied to that when it opened within the central area?

Current Oyster/contactless fares:
Farringdon → Abbey Wood £3.90 peak / £2.80 off peak (route unspecified)
Farringdon → Abbey Wood £5.90 peak / £4.60 off peak (changing at: "Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, London Bridge or Waterloo East (or Victoria or Waterloo)")

Farringdon → Plumstead £4.20 peak / £3.10 off peak (route unspecified)
Farringdon → Plumstead £5.90 peak / £4.60 off peak (changing at: "Blackfriars, Cannon Street or London Bridge (or Charing Cross, Victoria, Waterloo or Waterloo East)")

So TfL rates are being charged, but they're lower than the TOC rates.

The unspecified route fares are presumable available by changing outside Zone 1 (i.e. Greenwich, Lewisham, Woolwich Arsenal or New Cross).

It's not the direct service which causes the lower fare though. It's because the fares were set before it was realised that Crossrail wasn't going to happen, and when it does, there will be a common barrier line at both Abbey Wood and Farringdon so it will be impossible to identify which route has been taken, so the lower TfL fare will have to be charged unless you do an OSI en route (e.g at Cannon Street).

Of course,some fares were always the same,and tickets interavailable; eg Stratford-LV via Central Line or main line. So eg,Loughton to Oxford Circus has always been the same whether or not you go through the barrier at LV,and presumably that wil lbe the same after Crossrail.
Doubtless all these anomalies will one day be sorted out,with fares set at the highest common denominator!

Surely, unless explicitly declassified, you can only sit in first class if the train is advertised as standard class only rather than simply not having a fare between a specific station pair.