Condition of Bakerloo line stock

I believe each line has differing regimes for cleaning cycles subject to operating requirements. Victoria line trains I think get a deep clean every 24 weeks and the Central have the benefit of that vacuum wind tunnel that featured in a Channel 5 documentary used at at a similar frequency.

The S stock when through a phase where trains were looking a grubby in the floors but methinks that this was a consequence of units moving up to Old Darby during the ATC (Automatic Train Control) fittings that may have interrupted the normal cleaning regime. Perhaps now that the full fleet has returned to the Bakerloo (for a short while at least), the trains will revive their normal levels of attention.

I had to catch one the other day and some huge 14 stone plus bloke sat next to me, but kept shifting his position every 30 seconds... total wriggle-rear. And my back's not what it was. Up-down. up-down, up-down...

The kids might love it. I didn't.

14 stone PLUS. i.e. quite a lot larger than me. Size is relative. Relative mass is important when considering the 'see-saw' effect of 72 stock seating.

The interiors were refurbished back in the late 90's however the interior has to have a certain gloss level which is not shiny as to reflect light everywhere, as a result any graffiti has etched into the paint and also paint has been damaged due to the removal of graffiti, a solution has been to apply vinyl to interior panels and doors to improve the look of the cars although this is on an as and when basis, but tube trains are very dusty by the nature of running in tube tunnels and the dust is very fine and carbon is black and does get into crevices and is hard to keep clean, as normally each train has an deep interior clean every 21 Days although swept through each night.

Part of the issue is that the current refurb will need to be altered again to meet RVAR requirements in the coming months, so is there much use in keeping them presentable to change them again?

I understand two Hainault cars are in Acton Works serving as demonstrator vehicles for the mods? How are they progressing, does anyone know?

Must be honest though, the state of dilapidation isn’t comparable to the A Stock at a similar age. But agree that as these trains are shuttling people between the South Bank and the West End, that their appearance would leave a poor impression on tourists.

As a paying punter, I regard interior cleanliness as a basic part of what should be provided.  That is part of routine maintenance, and the fact that the cleanliness is so poor suggests that this aspect the maintenance regime is deficient, for whatever reason.  That is why there is use in keeping them presentable.  I'd also suggest that if they can't be kept presentable now, the odds on them being kept presentable on release aren't that great..  I think it was Peter Parker who talked about the crumbling edge of quality

Coming along slowly, trial fitment of the wheelchair bay and perch seating being manufactured by hand almost.

How is work going on the the portable wheelchair ramp re-design? The first attempt got a wheelchair onto the train but you couldn't get it off the ramp because of the limited space on the train and the angle needed for the distance between platform and the car floor.

Overall, a lot of work for the very limited number of stations on the line with step free access.

In my experience, no forecasts in the Commissioner's report are to be relied on - especially when they're looking 15 years hence. I'd call it a millstone rather than a milestone! In 2035, the trains will be over 60 years old, a good long life by any standard! The Piccadilly line contract has options for the Central, Bakerloo and W&C lines.

The worrying aspect of your comment, Jimbo, is that it could well be true. What's even more worrying is that it could be applied to other fleets.......60 year old 1992 tube stock anyone?

However, whilst the Bakerloo fleet had been likened to Trigger's broom, this analogy only works for so long. The various mechanical modifications recently completed were complicated and expensive. (BTW, They were needed to keep the trains in service even if they had been replaced in the same timescale as the Piccadilly fleet). If the wiring deteriorates - and no one knows when that might happen - it is likely to be even more complicated and expensive, not least because it was never intended to be done and you've got to clean out all the old cable debris from inaccessible cable ducts before threading the new cables. Perhaps this might be the replacement trigger?

I would make the point that if the fleet is to be kept 'for a long time', maintenance will have to change from what LU currently does into something more like has to be done in the heritage movement. It would be wrong to call it conservation, but for old vehicles, components and systems, that have never caused trouble, will start delivering end of life problems, and will need the maintainers to be fleet of foot in finding replacements for unobtainable OEM items.

More generally, making a business case for replacing trains like for like hasn't been done on the underground since the 1970s. The last like for like replacements were D stock (for CO/CP and R stock) and 1983 tube stock (allowing the last of the 1938 tube stock to be withdrawn). All subsequent replacements have been justified by the business benefit of a faster and more frequent serviceenebled by more powerful trains and delivered through modern signalling/ATO.

There are some mainline survivors from the 70s, the class 313 and the similar class 314 along with HSTs and anything else that uses Mark 3 coaches.

Ah yes, I forgot about them for some reason (I blame the heatwave). Of course, the 314s are also on the way out along with the Moorgate 313s. The South Coast 313s on the other hand will likely stick around for a few more years (presumably getting replaced during the next franchise).

Not very likely on S7's as there's no way you could comfortably put your feet on a seat (unless you sat on them). Also, on 7's and 8's, the backs are just as worn as the seats. Also, I doubt that a couple of kilo's of feet would cause anywhere near as much wear as 50-110 kilos of person.

Still a disgusting habit, though.