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Post by jimbo on May 31, 2024 20:44:27 GMT
In the early days of considering replacement stock the FACT demo was showing uncrewed operation up at Hainault. Service frequency was dropping on the branches to match falling demand and was projected to continue to do so. One idea was that off-peak all trains would split automatically at Leytonstone to maintain branch frequency. The FACT trials didn't get far, and Fares Fair returned off-peak demand.
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Post by d7666 on May 31, 2024 20:51:00 GMT
Think they would’ve retained a couple of 60TS for the Ongar shuttle if it had been kept open. Which would have been disproportionately expensive. Even if need just 1 set to run a shuttle, I'd predict actually have 3 sets to cover eventualities. Then they'd have to be CL ATP fitted. Even if Epping were minimised to a de-signalled long single line with nothing except fixed train stops at Ongar, you still have to enter an ATO area at Epping and signal this somehow, ATP or otherwise, and you still have to have a means of getting to/from Hainault depot for maintenance. Or build a shed at Ongar. My solution is more fun  As I think you need 3 trains, the 3 off 1986 4car units could have been taken over and adapted as necessary. They'd have to be overhauled, and that overhaul eliminates the weakest points of each type and otherwise align them more closely to each other. Might not even have been 4car if DC traction was an issue, but reduced to 3car, the necessary mods for that done at overhaul. CL ATP still fitted of course, but I suggest that would be simpler to fit to power electronics trains than clockwork camshafts etc. I can already see the queue of howls of protest as to why this can't possibly have worked, but I doubt any of them are really blocking points if minds had been put to do this.  |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on May 31, 2024 21:18:06 GMT
The branch could support two trains in service,in the 70s & early 80s there were two trains in service in peaks(2 units of 62TS) there was a passing loop at North Weald in those days.One train stabled overnight on the sdg by WB platform at Loughton,the other at Hainault,they swapped round every day.
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Post by xtmw on May 31, 2024 21:33:37 GMT
I suspect there was desire during the planning stages to have the option of running 6-car trains. This is possible, one train can run as "sandite unit", operated at 6 cars |
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Post by spsmiler on May 31, 2024 21:54:08 GMT
I can already see the queue of howls of protest as to why this can't possibly have worked, but I doubt any of them are really blocking points if minds had been put to do this. No howls of protest from passengers, indeed if anything there would have been squeals of joy as it would have seen some people using this service simply to sample the 'rare rolling stock' and the very rare example of a level crossing on a tube line (I think it might have only been a foot crossing, either way it existed and was traversed by tube trains). |
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Post by spsmiler on May 31, 2024 22:02:29 GMT
I suspect there was desire during the planning stages to have the option of running 6-car trains. But have 6 car trains ever run? Or, for that matter, 4 car trains? Not in passenger service, as far as I am aware, although I think 4 car trains were trialled for the Hainualt Woodford service - but this proved to be unworkable because the juice rails had been installed for longer trains it was found that there were locations where short 4 car trains were becoming gapped. As an aside, the C stock was also two-car units with the same intent to be able to vary train lengths but in the end 8 car trains never ran and the only time a 4 car train was run was when the four cars were being taken to Northwood for scrapping - so still not in passenger service. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 31, 2024 22:18:37 GMT
A four car C stock train did run in passenger service one year for Steam on the Met - four cars of the Yellow Pages unit ran on the Chesham shuttle.
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Post by jimbo on May 31, 2024 23:22:20 GMT
The C-stock was intended to become 8-car when remaining platforms were lengthened, District and A stock platforms already catering for peak services of 8-cars. It was also proposed to operate H&C Sundays with 4-car trains, but never came to pass.
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Post by 35b on Jun 1, 2024 10:58:28 GMT
Think they would’ve retained a couple of 60TS for the Ongar shuttle if it had been kept open. Which would have been disproportionately expensive. Even if need just 1 set to run a shuttle, I'd predict actually have 3 sets to cover eventualities. Then they'd have to be CL ATP fitted. Even if Epping were minimised to a de-signalled long single line with nothing except fixed train stops at Ongar, you still have to enter an ATO area at Epping and signal this somehow, ATP or otherwise, and you still have to have a means of getting to/from Hainault depot for maintenance. Or build a shed at Ongar. My solution is more fun As I think you need 3 trains, the 3 off 1986 4car units could have been taken over and adapted as necessary. They'd have to be overhauled, and that overhaul eliminates the weakest points of each type and otherwise align them more closely to each other. Might not even have been 4car if DC traction was an issue, but reduced to 3car, the necessary mods for that done at overhaul. CL ATP still fitted of course, but I suggest that would be simpler to fit to power electronics trains than clockwork camshafts etc. I can already see the queue of howls of protest as to why this can't possibly have worked, but I doubt any of them are really blocking points if minds had been put to do this. I think the real question is about why anyone would have spent the time and money on a branch that, had it been BR operated, would have been lucky to survive Beeching. |
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Post by xtmw on Jun 1, 2024 11:16:05 GMT
I suspect there was desire during the planning stages to have the option of running 6-car trains. But have 6 car trains ever run? Or, for that matter, 4 car trains? Not in passenger service, as far as I am aware, although I think 4 car trains were trialled for the Hainualt Woodford service - but this proved to be unworkable because the juice rails had been installed for longer trains it was found that there were locations where short 4 car trains were becoming gapped. It has. This train runs out of passenger service. This is the "sandite" unit I was talking about earlier. You are correct - I believe it kept getting gapped at Hainault depot. But I note this conversation is not related to the 92 refurbishment  - |
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Post by d7666 on Jun 1, 2024 12:18:32 GMT
Which would have been disproportionately expensive. Even if need just 1 set to run a shuttle, I'd predict actually have 3 sets to cover eventualities. Then they'd have to be CL ATP fitted. Even if Epping were minimised to a de-signalled long single line with nothing except fixed train stops at Ongar, you still have to enter an ATO area at Epping and signal this somehow, ATP or otherwise, and you still have to have a means of getting to/from Hainault depot for maintenance. Or build a shed at Ongar. My solution is more fun As I think you need 3 trains, the 3 off 1986 4car units could have been taken over and adapted as necessary. They'd have to be overhauled, and that overhaul eliminates the weakest points of each type and otherwise align them more closely to each other. Might not even have been 4car if DC traction was an issue, but reduced to 3car, the necessary mods for that done at overhaul. CL ATP still fitted of course, but I suggest that would be simpler to fit to power electronics trains than clockwork camshafts etc. I can already see the queue of howls of protest as to why this can't possibly have worked, but I doubt any of them are really blocking points if minds had been put to do this. I think the real question is about why anyone would have spent the time and money on a branch that, had it been BR operated, would have been lucky to survive Beeching. well indeed which is why things went the way they did but i did say my suggestion was more fun and todays ongar epping operation is more so |
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Post by d7666 on Jun 1, 2024 12:52:29 GMT
< set mode pedant = on > 4car 92ts ? yes every day  waterloo & city yes i know what was meant but question context is 92ts general < set mode pedant = off > |
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Post by jimbo on Jun 1, 2024 21:19:41 GMT
Of course, 4- and 6-car trains can be formed in depots, but would be difficult for regular coupling and uncoupling without a cab unit being available in the middle position. There are few spare ones available. So, the order may have envisaged permanent short trains on the Hainault shuttle, which never happened. But nothing more, surely.
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Post by d7666 on Jun 1, 2024 22:30:26 GMT
Of course, 4- and 6-car trains can be formed in depots, but would be difficult for regular coupling and uncoupling without a cab unit being available in the middle position. There are few spare ones available. So, the order may have envisaged permanent short trains on the Hainault shuttle, which never happened. But nothing more, surely. Surely .... not even envsaged that, the only reason for the more cab cars is simply to provide spares per se, no more than that, not for any deeper reason. If, say, 92ts had been 4car half units (like 73ts stock are 3car half units), there would probably have been a number of 4car double enders, like there are 3car double enders of 73ts; it is no more deep than that. |
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Post by Chris M on Jun 2, 2024 17:40:00 GMT
Mod note: Posts about turning trains have been moved to a new thread "turning units" in the rolling stock area
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 3, 2024 20:39:20 GMT
I think the use of 2 car units on the 1992 stock was simply to make removing defective portions of trains easier and losing fewer cars to defects.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Jun 3, 2024 21:08:05 GMT
Possible,although to me it seems like going back to pre 38 stock days of swapping cars out.
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Jun 8, 2024 7:57:30 GMT
I don't know what specific works were done during the time it was out, but it should be out next week. Not 100% definite though. Has anyone got any in-site as to whether the testing of the first upgraded train has resumed & whether the major bugs have been resolved so that the programme can be resumed? |
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Post by grumpycat on Jun 8, 2024 10:16:17 GMT
I don't know what specific works were done during the time it was out, but it should be out next week. Not 100% definite though. Has anyone got any in-site as to whether the testing of the first upgraded train has resumed & whether the major bugs have been resolved so that the programme can be resumed? On a tracking programme the refurb set hasn't appeared in service since early May. I hope it should be out next week *possibly* |
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Post by starlight73 on Jun 8, 2024 17:48:51 GMT
Someone I know saw a a 92TS car on a lorry near Acton Works today. Does anyone know what it’s doing (it seemed to have its bogies removed and probably heading for the works). Is this another coach being refurbished, or maybe a spares donor?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 13, 2024 7:57:52 GMT
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Jun 13, 2024 8:22:46 GMT
Good news on another formal step forward (& hoping it runs). Does anyone know if progress on the following trains has resumed? |
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Jun 20, 2024 8:46:50 GMT
Latest "formal" info in the Quarterly report to the Investment Committee (June 2024)
Unfortunately Distinct lack of info/milestones regarding about next trains & overall programme.
Central line (fleet and signalling renewals and incremental signalling)
In Quarter 4, the first refurbished train successfully operated through-tunnel runs and served an equivalent of 50,000 passenger journeys.
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Post by xtmw on Jun 20, 2024 9:46:04 GMT
Good news on another formal step forward (& hoping it runs). Does anyone know if progress on the following trains has resumed? If you're talking about when it'll next be in passenger service - I've heard that it won't be running until July |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 20, 2024 20:04:19 GMT
LOL, when I saw July my first thought was along the lines of "oh no, another long wait".
Then I remembered today's date (20th June) and realised that in theory the train could be out as soon as the week after next. Which suits me fine.
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Post by xtmw on Jun 20, 2024 20:24:56 GMT
Apologies I should have specified further - I meant mid-late July.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 17, 2024 0:30:54 GMT
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Post by miff on Jul 17, 2024 9:37:58 GMT
On Saturday a member of the CLIP team posted on Facebook 'Central Line Past & Present' Group the train has been through software updates and "will be out running in passenger service Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday this week. Stabling at Hainault for two weeks for further maintenance, then off to Ealing for routine brake testing."
He also said "The next CLIP train will be out of the project soon, and will be stabled at Ruislip with further works ongoing, this should be in passenger service before the end of the year. The path into service isn’t over night, and it takes time to train and set up a production line, but they will be coming through faster."
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 17, 2024 14:31:56 GMT
Ah, since today is Wednesday it means that I've missed it
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Post by xtmw on Jul 17, 2024 18:48:42 GMT
It's been running as 480 this week
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