rincew1nd
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Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 24, 2024 13:03:36 GMT
I thought I'd post this here... I was speaking to someone I know and apparently they're having trouble with the refurbished train whilst on test runs. Whoops.... Can anyone confirm this rumors or is it just rumors? Given that the point of test runs is to identify problems and then figure out a way of fixing them, it's probably true. |
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 202
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Post by gefw on Jan 24, 2024 15:02:03 GMT
I thought I'd post this here... I was speaking to someone I know and apparently they're having trouble with the refurbished train whilst on test runs. Whoops.... Can anyone confirm this rumors or is it just rumors? The refurbishment is actually a very significant package of works with many new/upgraded systems - so not surprising that there will be problems to be ironed out. Not sure that the Project team actually appreciated the resources required to undertake the work - particularly with the skills attraction & retention problems Tfl has had particularly over recent years. |
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Post by xtmw on Jan 24, 2024 16:30:37 GMT
Yes I thought the same - the train has been stripped down and alot of the equipment replaced. Let's just hope these issues can be ironed out !
Despite the current service disruption I think it's got to be said the engineers, train operators and other TfL staff members are trying as hard as they can. Massive well done to anyone who is involved with the Central Line in any way shape or form.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 24, 2024 21:31:27 GMT
Ofcourse hindsight is a great thing but I do really think with some structured planning and adequate funding, TFL really should have considered replacing the 72ts, the 73ts and the 92ts at the same time with one single order, benefiting from the "bulk" saving principle. I dont know how long previous central line fleets have lasted but I think (especially given todays intense service demands compared to yesteryear), that 30-35 years should be the expected lifespan of a central line fleet given how intensely worked any fleet would be on the line. Bare in mind that the 62ts before that (which did not need to meet as much of an intense service level), were replaced in after 33 years. I dont know what is to come but at some point both this fleet and the bakerloo will need to be replaced, and ultimately, kicking the can down the road will only result in more money having to be spent for both the short run and long run. I think that they might well have wanted to do this ... one word explains why it has proven impossible money (ie: lack of funding) |
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 202
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Post by gefw on Jan 25, 2024 17:20:02 GMT
Relevant post on the Central Line Cancellations Thread If that wasn't bad enough while doing CDP/ATOR yesterday I heard that there are problems with the new AC motors as the test train that has been running along the Hainault - Woodford loop got "gapped" in either the North Neck or the South Neck at Hainault depot To me, gapped is when a train doesn't have any pickup shoes on the 3rd rail, surely the shoegear hasn't moved? Or is it a case that a car was on the juice but something about the motor meant it wouldn't move? Firstly, we use 3rd and 4th rails for traction current on LU! Now whilst I'll grant you S stock doesn't run on the Central line, nor is it in anyway similar from a technical stand point, its possible to gap an S stock and still have pick up shoes in contact with the traction current rails - so the notion that being gapped means all pick up shoes off current needs to be gotten out of your head. An S stock can be gapped if both driving motor car's (the outer ends) have their pick up shoes off current as they directly feed the compressors at each end of the train. No compressors = no air; and that = no movement. I know the 92's on the Central are made up of 4x two car units, but beyond that...... Similar problems have occured with "old" 92 stock previously at Hainault, Epping and West Ruislip where if a train stops in complicated points & crossings areas (where traction rail gaps are necessary & frequent), unless the driver acts quickly air can be lost (worsened if air has been dumped by Emerg brake request) - Hopefully vivid detail will be available on the new DTS & enhanced train remote condition monitoring system. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 25, 2024 23:43:36 GMT
Ofcourse hindsight is a great thing but I do really think with some structured planning and adequate funding, TFL really should have considered replacing the 72ts, the 73ts and the 92ts at the same time with one single order, benefiting from the "bulk" saving principle. I dont know how long previous central line fleets have lasted but I think (especially given todays intense service demands compared to yesteryear), that 30-35 years should be the expected lifespan of a central line fleet given how intensely worked any fleet would be on the line. Bare in mind that the 62ts before that (which did not need to meet as much of an intense service level), were replaced in after 33 years. I dont know what is to come but at some point both this fleet and the bakerloo will need to be replaced, and ultimately, kicking the can down the road will only result in more money having to be spent for both the short run and long run. Going back to the end of the last century, the PPP promise of low-risk line upgrades financed by the private sector was based on a 30-year life of modern trains and signalling, so that each line would be dealt with within the PPP contracts. Of course, plans don't always work out, and PPP collapsed within the first quarter, but this does suggest that stretching lives towards 50 years is not ideal. |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,968
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Post by towerman on Jan 26, 2024 11:59:08 GMT
Ofcourse hindsight is a great thing but I do really think with some structured planning and adequate funding, TFL really should have considered replacing the 72ts, the 73ts and the 92ts at the same time with one single order, benefiting from the "bulk" saving principle. I dont know how long previous central line fleets have lasted but I think (especially given todays intense service demands compared to yesteryear), that 30-35 years should be the expected lifespan of a central line fleet given how intensely worked any fleet would be on the line. Bare in mind that the 62ts before that (which did not need to meet as much of an intense service level), were replaced in after 33 years. I dont know what is to come but at some point both this fleet and the bakerloo will need to be replaced, and ultimately, kicking the can down the road will only result in more money having to be spent for both the short run and long run. Going back to the end of the last century, the PPP promise of low-risk line upgrades financed by the private sector was based on a 30-year life of modern trains and signalling, so that each line would be dealt with within the PPP contracts. Of course, plans don't always work out, and PPP collapsed within the first quarter, but this does suggest that stretching lives towards 50 years is not ideal. Speaking as one who maintained 62TS for 14 years,they were in pretty good nick and could’ve gone on for another 10 years,it was the 56/59TS that was knackered. |
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Post by A60stock on Jan 26, 2024 16:56:37 GMT
92s may be knackered in comparison (in part) as they're the first stock to follow a very intense timetable and the first under ATO for the line.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 26, 2024 17:44:38 GMT
. . . . and the first under ATO for the line. Don’t forget the 1960 Tube Stock Hainault-Woodford shuttle. |
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Post by jamesb on Jan 28, 2024 0:15:15 GMT
I came across an interesting post a couple of days ago in the Central Line Past and Present group on Facebook, and thought that members here might find it useful:
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 28, 2024 23:02:48 GMT
Going back to the end of the last century, the PPP promise of low-risk line upgrades financed by the private sector was based on a 30-year life of modern trains and signalling, so that each line would be dealt with within the PPP contracts. Of course, plans don't always work out, and PPP collapsed within the first quarter, but this does suggest that stretching lives towards 50 years is not ideal. Speaking as one who maintained 62TS for 14 years,they were in pretty good nick and could’ve gone on for another 10 years,it was the 56/59TS that was knackered. What was the difference between the 62 and 59 stock, they virtually looked the same. The 62's seemed knackered to me during the last years. They smelt, leaks all inside, dodgy windows, weird noises doors kept failing in service. I do miss them, lol |
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Post by miff on Jan 28, 2024 23:16:18 GMT
If the second completed train (T4 in the above post) is not due out until August it does seem likely to be an awfully long time before production really gets going.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 29, 2024 6:25:16 GMT
What was the difference between the 62 and 59 stock, they virtually looked the same. Almost identical, remember that 1959 Stock was initially delivered to the Central in 8-car formation before moving on to other Lines. 1959 Stock was exclusively built by Metro-Cammell, some 1962 cars were built by BR at Derby. Cab equipment was slightly different, hence why the latter fitted stabling light was on different sides of the headlights, the MG indicator mounted near floor level on the ‘62s. The driving desk was one piece rather than separate columns for master controller and brake handles. |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,968
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Post by towerman on Jan 29, 2024 12:16:45 GMT
What was the difference between the 62 and 59 stock, they virtually looked the same. The 62's seemed knackered to me during the last years. They smelt, leaks all inside, dodgy windows, weird noises doors kept failing in service. I do miss them, lol 56/59TS had carbon contact voltage regulator,62TS had solid state regulator.56/59TS had hard wired door & brake valves,62TS had plug in valves. You mention door problems on 62TS,this affected 56/59/62TS especially in wet weather,rainwater would run down the glass in the door and seep into the door itself,the extra weight would cause the door to stick.Had to punch a hole in the bottom of the door to drain the water out.Also the bearing in the front track wheel of the door was prone to collapse causing the door to “bottom” on the track. |
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Post by stapler on Feb 3, 2024 16:45:05 GMT
With the 62s, you learned to kick the doors in rain....
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Post by A60stock on Feb 5, 2024 14:08:22 GMT
. . . . and the first under ATO for the line. Don’t forget the 1960 Tube Stock Hainault-Woodford shuttle. Of course! I should have specified I meant along whole mainline. |
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Post by xtmw on Mar 5, 2024 16:49:45 GMT
CLIP train has been seen today running between North Acton and West Ruislip. There are other movements but won't say as per rules.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 5, 2024 18:30:58 GMT
was it carrying passengers - or solely 'test trips'?
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Post by xtmw on Mar 5, 2024 18:50:05 GMT
I believe it's in passenger service
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 5, 2024 19:00:36 GMT
It was "out of service" on Trackernet, T480, left Ruislip depot via the east end/Ruislip Gardens at 10:20, went to North Acton and back to West Ruislip 23 Road four times then went back into Ruislip depot via the west end 14:20
If it had been in passenger service it would have gone into the platform at West Ruislip or tip out at Ruislip Gardens
According to a test train operator on Twitter it's going out almost every day now as it needs more mileage before it can go through the pipe.
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Post by xtmw on Mar 5, 2024 19:19:57 GMT
According to a test train operator on Twitter it's going out almost every day now as it needs more mileage before it can go through the pipe. In passenger service - it needs to be signed off before it can enter passenger through the pipe. It's been seen on test runs though. Must have been wrong about it being in passenger service - there are other movements listed so might just be it's a one off before it enters passenger service... |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 6, 2024 9:47:52 GMT
If its running in passenger service then it will be with test train drivers. As far as I'm aware none of us, including the Instructor Operators, have been trained on the new kit like the in-car CCTV, the new DTS system or where items that were below the seats have been moved to allow for the wheelchair space
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 202
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Post by gefw on Mar 6, 2024 15:19:26 GMT
As far as I'm aware none of us, including the Instructor Operators, have been trained on the new kit like the in-car CCTV, the new DTS system or where items that were below the seats have been moved to allow for the wheelchair space One would have thought now was an ideal opportunity to train the Train Ops (with spares as a result of the reduced timetable) |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 6, 2024 16:13:44 GMT
At the moment they only have one fully functioning train that's still doing test runs so we don't have anything to train on
I imagine they'll release the IOps for training first then they can release us to be trained by the IOps
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Post by xtmw on Mar 10, 2024 16:50:12 GMT
(not my video) a video of the refurbished 92 completing a journey on the western end of the line
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Post by jimbo on Mar 11, 2024 0:03:22 GMT
When the production trains start to enter service, will this prototype need to be altered to match?
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Post by miff on Mar 11, 2024 8:36:18 GMT
When the production trains start to enter service, will this prototype need to be altered to match? Based on earlier posts in this thread and elsewhere I believe this one is seen as the first ‘production’ train, designed following the earlier testing of two prototypes - one for the traction-package, t’other for the interior design & systems etc. Those two prototypes, neither of which ran in passenger service, are indeed now being modified to the production design. However it seems full production won’t get under way until in-service testing, mileage accumulation and certification of the first one is completed. The second train isn’t expected out until August. I guess it’s envisaged any further physical design changes, if necessary following testing, would be minor. Software tweaks & upgrades will, of course, go on for ever. And training to be done. |
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Post by ted672 on Mar 11, 2024 16:46:36 GMT
As a slight aside, a friend recently posted a photo on another group of what may have been part of 377, which has been out of use for ages. Is it going for "Clipping" or something else? And while I'm at it, would there have been any merit in taking some of the long-term out-of-use cars for upgrading before depleting the in-service fleet?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 11, 2024 19:59:54 GMT
The answer to your last question will depend why they are out of use and how much work is required to bring them back to operational condition. Trains that are stopped for a long time almost always get stripped of working parts to keep the units in service running.
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Post by miff on Mar 11, 2024 23:06:31 GMT
One of the above posts said 4 trains were currently in the CLIP programme at Acton, plus the completed one being tested out on the line. It said the sixth train to be worked on would be a stopped unit needing body repairs, which was due to be moved from Hainault to Acton by road.
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