|
Post by superteacher on Sept 3, 2018 20:41:13 GMT
Being reported in the news (and on Twitter, see tweet below) is an incident where a Jubilee line 1996 stock train travelled, with some of its doors open, between Finchley Road and West Hampstead last Saturday at around 9am.
Nobody was hurt and the incident is being investigated by TFL.
We are happy to leave this thread open, providing there is no speculation as to the cause as per forum rules.
|
|
londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 480
|
Post by londoner on Sept 3, 2018 20:54:15 GMT
When I read the topic title and contents, I presumed it was a small opening of the door. To see a picture of the door completely open is quite surprising to me. I am glad no one was hurt.
|
|
|
Post by banana99 on Sept 3, 2018 21:29:46 GMT
When I read the topic title and contents, I presumed it was a small opening of the door. To see a picture of the door completely open is quite surprising to me. I am glad no one was hurt. The tweeter goes on to say in a reply that it was "at least 10 doors" that were open. I suspect that it was the entire side of the car and he is (slightly) mis-counting. There are also some rather interesting tweets suggesting that he should have got up, stumbled towards to chasm and activated the passenger alarm and had a chinwag with the driver, (whom I'm sure would have believed him instantaneously ). I think it was more wise to remain seated and stay well away from potential doom caused by a sudden lateral force.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 3, 2018 22:33:42 GMT
Assuming that everyone onboard is sensible enough to stay away from the doors, it is likely going to be safer to remain on the train until it arrives at the next station - the track is a dangerous place.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 3, 2018 23:50:51 GMT
I think its safe to say that would qualify as a major "door irregularity"
On 1992TS unless you pull down a handle while the train is within station limits it will continue until the next station before it activates the emergency brake. I've never worked on the Jubilee but I would imagine the same applies to 1996TS so even if someone had pulled the handle down the train would have carried on to West Hampstead.
The depot staff at Stratford Market and Neasden are going to have a lot of checking to do...
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2018 0:09:35 GMT
I think the big question will relate to how the train was able to depart Finchley Road with doors open because under normal circumstances a train cannot take power with open doors. We will have to wait and see.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 7:14:27 GMT
I don't know what is more astonishing the passenger filming that did not bother to alert the driver, or the people sat in the carriage that haven't even noticed it. The next station is West Hampstead change for National rail services. Doors are open on the left hand side.
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2018 7:28:23 GMT
I don't know what is more astonishing the passenger filming that did not bother to alert the driver, or the people sat in the carriage that haven't even noticed it. The next station is West Hampstead change for National rail services. Doors are open on the left hand side. You will have a difficult life if you aspire to understand the behaviour of passengers . . .
|
|
|
Post by mcmaddog on Sept 4, 2018 7:47:29 GMT
Because they know if they report it that their journey will be delayed
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Sept 4, 2018 8:23:36 GMT
Because they know if they report it that their journey will be delayed ...for no reason. "There's a door open; better keep well away from it". Common sense is alive and well, after all.
|
|
|
Post by ducatisti on Sept 4, 2018 8:28:18 GMT
I don't know what is more astonishing the passenger filming that did not bother to alert the driver, or the people sat in the carriage that haven't even noticed it. The next station is West Hampstead change for National rail services. Doors are open on the left hand side. Aren't all the alarms by the doors? wouldn't the passenger be putting themselves in considerable danger by trying to do that?
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
Member is Online
|
Post by class411 on Sept 4, 2018 8:45:51 GMT
I don't know what is more astonishing the passenger filming that did not bother to alert the driver, or the people sat in the carriage that haven't even noticed it. The next station is West Hampstead change for National rail services. Doors are open on the left hand side. Aren't all the alarms by the doors? wouldn't the passenger be putting themselves in considerable danger by trying to do that? Probably wouldn't be the best idea in the world, because, if the carriage is not packed, there is virtually no danger of anyone falling out. On the other hand, in decades of regular underground use, I can't ever remember being thrown against a door, so if there was a compelling reason to alert the driver, and bearing in mind that there are always posts to hold on to near the doors, I wouldn't be concerned about doing so.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
|
Post by roythebus on Sept 4, 2018 8:53:32 GMT
There's plenty of speculation about the reasons on various railway Facebook groups. Some conversations this morning on a "big railway" group wonder how they used slam-door stock for so many years! without checking figures I suggested that there's possibly been more incidents of passengers being dragged along by sliding door stock than there ever were with slam doors. Maybe people were more sensible in earlier years? And it was I believe 1956 when the last hand-worked sliding doors disappeared from the Underground.
It'll be interesting to see what the cause of this one is.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
Member is Online
|
Post by class411 on Sept 4, 2018 9:06:22 GMT
There's plenty of speculation about the reasons on various railway Facebook groups. Some conversations this morning on a "big railway" group wonder how they used slam-door stock for so many years! without checking figures I suggested that there's possibly been more incidents of passengers being dragged along by sliding door stock than there ever were with slam doors. Maybe people were more sensible in earlier years? And it was I believe 1956 when the last hand-worked sliding doors disappeared from the Underground. It'll be interesting to see what the cause of this one is. Slam door stock frequently travelled with doors open. Back in the late seventies/early eighties, I commuted from a station with a curved platform. I'd travel at the front of the train because it was generally less crowded. The station exit was about two carriages away from the other end. I would say that 50% of the time when I alighted from a twelve or thirteen carriage train at night, I'd need to kick at least one door closed as the train departed. Most of these were on the 'second catch', so would probably not have allowed egress if anyone had leant on them, but occasionally the doors were fully open. Without stationing multiple porters (yes, they were thing back then), it would have been impossible to dispatch trains in a timely manner and ensure that all doors were correctly closed.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Sept 4, 2018 9:22:22 GMT
I don't know what is more astonishing the passenger filming that did not bother to alert the driver, or the people sat in the carriage that haven't even noticed it. The next station is West Hampstead change for National rail services. Doors are open on the left hand side. Aren't all the alarms by the doors? wouldn't the passenger be putting themselves in considerable danger by trying to do that? In the video you can see an alarm handle. My internal risk assessment process (aka common sense), says that from the position if the videographer I can get to it and pull it with low risk of falling out of the door (even if pulling it caused an emergency strop - which we know it wouldn't). However if the handle was the opposite side of the door I might have acted differently.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Sept 4, 2018 9:53:58 GMT
Must have been incredibly noisy. Worse still if it had reached a tunnel.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 11:02:35 GMT
Gosh, I'd love to see that :-) And it happened on my line, on a stretch I pass daily...
|
|
|
Post by jamesb on Sept 4, 2018 11:07:24 GMT
My instinct would be to pull a handle, even if it meant very cautiously hanging on to bars etc to get to it - because I would worry that other doors could be open in different cars and passengers may have fallen out - or be at risk of falling out - even if they weren't in the carriage that I was in. More likely, an inquisitive but idiotic person sticking their head out the door and getting it hit by a passing object
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2018 11:42:03 GMT
Gosh, I'd love to see that :-) And it happened on my line, on a stretch I pass daily... I'm quite sure you wouldn't love to see that if you were on a packed train pressed against doors which flew open. A bit odd to wish for something that could result in death.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
Member is Online
|
Post by class411 on Sept 4, 2018 11:54:39 GMT
Gosh, I'd love to see that :-) And it happened on my line, on a stretch I pass daily... I'm quite sure you wouldn't love to see that if you were on a packed train pressed against doors which flew open. A bit odd to wish for something that could result in death. I think he meant that he'd like to have seen ' that' - i.e. the situation where the doors opened in a lightly loaded carriage, and as a matter of actual fact, no one was injured. I think it would be quite spooky. Not exactly scary, but something that would make you feel anxious and uneasy - at least for a moment or two.
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2018 12:00:57 GMT
I'm quite sure you wouldn't love to see that if you were on a packed train pressed against doors which flew open. A bit odd to wish for something that could result in death. I think he meant that he'd like to have seen ' that' - i.e. the situation where the doors opened in a lightly loaded carriage, and as a matter of actual fact, no one was injured. I think it would be quite spooky. Not exactly scary, but something that would make you feel anxious and uneasy - at least for a moment or two. Maybe, but my comment still stands.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Sept 4, 2018 13:01:26 GMT
It's one way to reduce trap & drag incidents, I suppose...
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 4, 2018 14:04:08 GMT
there's possibly been more incidents of passengers being dragged along by sliding door stock than there ever were with slam doors. I would say that 50% of the time when I alighted from a twelve or thirteen carriage train at night, I'd need to kick at least one door closed as the train departed. Most of these were on the 'second catch', so would probably not have allowed egress if anyone had leant on them, but occasionally the doors were fully open.. Almost certainly more people trapped by sliding doors, because slam doors were under the control of the passenger who would be in a position to free himself by opening the door again. I also remember kicking passing doors shut - but where were you commuting from that had 13-car trains?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 16:16:02 GMT
I think he meant that he'd like to have seen ' that' - i.e. the situation where the doors opened in a lightly loaded carriage, and as a matter of actual fact, no one was injured. Exactly that I'd also love to be evacuated through a tunnel.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 4, 2018 18:08:08 GMT
In the video you can see an alarm handle. My internal risk assessment process (aka common sense), says that from the position if the videographer I can get to it and pull it with low risk of falling out of the door (even if pulling it caused an emergency strop - which we know it wouldn't). However if the handle was the opposite side of the door I might have acted differently. This assumes that the videographer is able-bodied. Two weeks ago I'd have probably thought the same thing as Rincew1nd. Today, I need to use a crutch to get around and I would not be leaving my seat while both the door was open and the train was in motion.
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Sept 4, 2018 18:50:42 GMT
In the video you can see an alarm handle. My internal risk assessment process (aka common sense), says that from the position if the videographer I can get to it and pull it with low risk of falling out of the door (even if pulling it caused an emergency strop - which we know it wouldn't). However if the handle was the opposite side of the door I might have acted differently. This assumes that the videographer is able-bodied. Two weeks ago I'd have probably thought the same thing as Rincew1nd. Today, I need to use a crutch to get around and I would not be leaving my seat while both the door was open and the train was in motion. Even without that I personally would be very cautious about pulling an alarm in the circumstances presented within the video. Passengers are fairly safe in their seats - all it takes is a lurch over pointwork to lose your footing or grip and you're out the door. If it was a packed train in rush hour (And, umm, it isn't) then without a doubt an alarm would have been pulled the moment the train moved.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Sept 4, 2018 19:15:34 GMT
In the video you can see an alarm handle. My internal risk assessment process (aka common sense), says that from the position if the videographer I can get to it and pull it with low risk of falling out of the door (even if pulling it caused an emergency strop - which we know it wouldn't). However if the handle was the opposite side of the door I might have acted differently. This assumes that the videographer is able-bodied. Two weeks ago I'd have probably thought the same thing as Rincew1nd. Today, I need to use a crutch to get around and I would not be leaving my seat while both the door was open and the train was in motion. Fair point, which I will happily concede.
|
|
|
Post by countryman on Sept 4, 2018 19:41:22 GMT
I don't know what is more astonishing the passenger filming that did not bother to alert the driver, or the people sat in the carriage that haven't even noticed it. The next station is West Hampstead change for National rail services. Doors are open on the left hand side. Aren't all the alarms by the doors? wouldn't the passenger be putting themselves in considerable danger by trying to do that? <iframe width="34.940000000000055" height="6.099999999999994" style="position: absolute; width: 34.940000000000055px; height: 6.099999999999994px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_65878369" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="34.940000000000055" height="6.099999999999994" style="position: absolute; width: 34.94px; height: 6.1px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1676px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_23212846" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="34.940000000000055" height="6.099999999999994" style="position: absolute; width: 34.94px; height: 6.1px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 242px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_6343096" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="34.940000000000055" height="6.099999999999994" style="position: absolute; width: 34.94px; height: 6.1px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1676px; top: 242px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_62514723" scrolling="no"></iframe> Unless the doors were open on both sides, surely there would be alarms on the side of the car with the closed doors!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 20:15:23 GMT
Can we talk to the operator via the alarms?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Sept 4, 2018 21:15:42 GMT
Can we talk to the operator via the alarms? That depends on the stock, but I believe the 1996 stock has that capability. Obviously the driver might not be in a position to respond right away though.
|
|