Interesting movements at Earl's Court

By using the words "the imlication seems to be".......you're clearly making an assumption about what I've said.

So to clear things up, here's a more detailed explanation.....

Firstly I did not state that its a hard & fast rule to always remain in a platform when looking at a green starter with a yellow repeater. I said logic would suggest that if a train in platform 2 is also going towards Gloucester Road and has a green starter, one should stay put in platform 1 as all you’re going to achieve is getting stopped between stations at the next signal which you already know is at danger. That statement is very specific to the Earls Court area, though should have clarified that one shouldn't stay in the hope of seeing double green as that isn't true; I should have added "for a little while" to the end.

At the likes of Mansion House or Cannon Street on the eastbound where we have a similar set up of Green starter & yelllow repeater, we stay put - particularly Mansion House as the rear car is still in the platform if stopped at the next signal. Conversly though, we always depart at the likes of Barons Court both directions with a green starter and Yellow repeater as the relevent next red signal will only clear once its approached.

You can't compare different locations or rely solely on printed diagrams as each area works in different ways. Local line knowledge is key and its not a case of one way fits all areas.

To further illustrate my point, you made comparisons to Camden but I fail to see the relevance as all trains go in the same direction. At Earls Court, looking beyond towards Gloucester Road, we have the Circle line crossing our tracks on their way to High Street Kensington. This can add a delay to a train departing Earls Court platform 2 which in turn then delays a train departing platform 1 for even longer at EC7........further more, there's a draw up signal on the way to Gloucester Road from Earls Court and if the aforementioned Circle line gets in the way thus causing that draw up signal to come into play, the said draw up signal only clears once the District train has stopped at it.

Paper diagrams are all well & good if things work how they're shown! Reality is sometimes different.

My basic original point was if you know how an area works, you can perhaps apply a little common sense and not deliberately delay passengers between stations for longer than neccessary. Surely its always far more desirable to hold in a platform that between stations? That abillity to use common sense has been taken away by a policy of carry on regardless. That's all I was saying.


Earls Court is a crew relief point and many trains have booked stand time there of two or three minutes. Its not at all unusal for trains to remain in the platforms for extended dwell times and to see reds on the approach to the the station.

And if I had a pound for everytime the signaller has held me past my departure time for no apparent reason.....


No need for that!


I didn't go so far as to say I'd wait for double green and that's not what I train. Nor does any other driver take that view.

All I advocate is what the driver did that started this whole thread off in the first place. Taking a little longer to get to EC7's makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. As has been stated, the points will move 4 and a half seconds after the train is proved stopped at EC7.

EC7 can only clear once the train off platform 2 has cleared its overlap which is a darn sight more than 4 and a half seconds! Whole point is, with local knowledge and experience, its pretty easy to judge how long to leave it after the other train departs platform 2 before its worth leaving platform 1 thus ensuring the minimum four and a half second delay at EC7.


S stock is about 120 metres long so lets meet in the middle and say two train lengths.

So two train lengths to EC7 eh? Well I said "just over a train length away" with one and a half train lengths being the figure in my mind. Now if you factor in the double bend departing platform 1, and that EC7 comes into view about 3 cars or so after departing platform 1.....


I'll raise one eyebrow at your 35mph/110m ratio........we work on the basis of entering platforms under control, and as a line we say that's 30mph.

I feel you're taking what I said (which was "to suggest we ought to race out of a platform with a red signal ahead, just over a train length away") a little to the extreme. All I was getting at, and again its that local line knowledge thing, is that there's no point doing your best to get to EC7 in the minimal amount of time as it ain't gonna clear till the other train has got past its overlap. What you're actually doing is chasing red signals and that's something I wholly discourage as an I/O and that is why I said that we train to drive defensively as any other way is asking for a SPAD. I wasn't saying specifically that anyone is at risk of SPADing EC7 specifically......just that the chasing red signals mentality can lead to that occuring.


Well exactly - why put it there if we're to ignore it?!


With the greatest of respect to the OP, they suggested two Upminster trains departed platform and has since admitted that may be incorrect. I don't think the driver was trying avoid coming to a stand - I suggest they were simply looking to avoid being at a stand for an excessive amount of time. A moving train is better than a stationary one to most passengers.

The company wants ATO and I can see why.

The reason I mentioned the ATO attitude is that with the Northern & Jubilee now using it we're seeing a lot more cross transfers off ATO lines and the difference in attitude to speed is something to behold. We also tend to see these drivers having a lot more issues with platform overruns.


I agree, so not sure where you got that from.

As I said above, chasing red signals is bad practice and I hope you agree with that.....