Cab Security

Is it really feasible to fit complicated electronic locks that only open in defined circumstances to every train on the network, some of which are 40+ years old? A more realistic aim would be to agree a solution for future new stock which could be gradually introduced as trains are replaced.

I seem to remember spsmiller saying that when he was younger they were allowed into the back cab on the Met in the morning commute. I can't find it anymore but when did this stop being allowed?

I agree with that. Whilst I was on my Work Experience, one morning I saw two people (who obviously weren't LUL staff) getting into back cab (facing Stratford) of the 1996 Stock, luckily someone shouted at them to get out of there. I despise it when people who have absolutely no business to be in staff only areas of the railway just enter these areas, I'm assuming that some of them think that they can do anything just because "I pay my taxes/tickets" - although I'm sure that most customers passengers don't have this attitude. All cabs, regardless of whether they're being used or not, should be locked IMO. It may be apparently fun for those doing it, but I doubt the staff will find it as amusing. I'd class it as trespassing on the railway, and should be dealt with as such. I also think it's a good idea for the "You vs Train" campaign to be extended to include LUL as well.

In terms of locking the door, I'd suggest some sort of specially designed magnetic key that T/Ops have which they "tap" onto the train before opening the cab door. If this little magnetic key isn't tapped on the train, then whatever device is interacted with to open the cab door is deactivated. It would probably be better if this was bespoke and, if possible, made in-house with the specifications as safely guarded as the Johnston font is

"Please don't assault our staff", management says. But what are they doing to prevent this from happening? Alcohol is prohibited on the Underground, but this isn't always necessarily enforced. People aren't always in their best states when drunk, and may do things that they wouldn't do whilst sober, so could the rules possibly be extended to include drunk people too? If they weren't allowed to even enter the system, maybe drunken assaults could be avoided. But then the problem arises of where they will go. I'm sure that bus drivers, especially those on the Night Bus, won't be very keen with allowing more drunk people onto their buses. There should be some more preventative measures put in place by management so that their "plea" is fulfilled.

Then again, as always, I'm saying this from a "lay man" enthusiast's point of view. Quite a lot of the posts previously made in this thread were from experienced staff members' point of view. As such, I may have some misunderstandings about the issue and I'm always happy to be corrected (sorry for the long post as well )

Actually it was the front cab.

On my way to school I used to meet some friends at Liverpool Street station - usually we travelled on the 8:14am Amersham train which used the bay platform and we sat right next to the train driver's cab. So... when the driver came we got to see inside the cab. I think we even opened the door for the driver, my memory on that part is fading and I do not recall if this was possible.

Anyway, we got to look inside and if the driver did not close the door immediately we got to watch him use his keys to unlock the driving controls, etc.

Sometimes the door was left open during the journey, so that we could enjoy a forward view. Other times we were even invited in, although we had to duck when entering stations as the train drivers said that they would get in trouble if a station supervisor saw a row of smiling faces in the cab with them!

How I wish I'd filmed the mainline trains I sometimes saw at Farringdon (BR MK1 coaches with diesel loco). Even one half decent still image view would have been so useful when making my recent film about the LNER Quad-Art carriages which included some surviving BR carriages from this service.

By the way, one morning when we boarded the Amersham train we noticed some greenfly inside the car - on the windows, etc. At first we thought nothing of it but when we looked up we all ran in horror. Hitchcock should have been there to use it as a scene in a horror film - that part of the train had an infestation of greenfly and the ceiling was a seething mass of them.

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Whilst talking about cab security, this may be of interest.

Some years ago (earlier part of this decade) I was sitting next to the cab of a Bakerloo line train when the driver had his bag nicked. I was reading so did not see the crime but remember hearing some excited schoolboys shouting to each other at the time. I vaguely recall them using the porter button to close the passenger doors, perhaps to stop other passengers chasing after them.

I think what happened is that the driver had gone to investigate the use of the emergency alarm, but he left his platform door open and a schoolboy reached in or even entered the cab and nicked the bag. This was around 4pm, possibly at Stonebridge Park, Harlesdon or Kensal Green stations. Because he no longer had his safety equipment (it was in the bag) the driver said that he could not continue the journey but fortunately there was an off-duty driver around who had his bag and safety equipment with him and this way the train was able to continue. I dont know what was stolen that the driver needed.

Simon

The magnetic locks on J Doors would activate when one of the cabs is "live", if a driver leaves the cab at any time the procedure is to "fully secure" the train i.e. remove their keys from the lock so the cab would not be "live" and the locks would be released (I seem to recall that one driver got sacked for leaving the cab "live" to fill up a water bottle).

The problem with introducing magnetic locking on new rolling stock is that the next delivery won't be until 2023 on the Piccadilly while the 2009 stock on the Victoria and the S Stock on the sub surface lines probably won't be replaced until the 2050s. Cab invasions are becoming increasing regular events, waiting for rolling stock to be replaced is not an option.

Another issue that occurred as I was stuck staring at a red signal was unauthorised evacuations, where passengers leave the train without waiting for staff to let them out. There haven't been any to my knowledge on the Tube but there have been a few on the mainline with people walking down the track so I suppose its only a matter of time before we have one.

Someone wondered if Night Tube and alcohol were involved, at least one cab invasion on the Central Line was during the morning peak so I don't think we can ascribe the problem to Night Tube. It seems to me that some people think that they are entitled to do whatever they want on public transport because they've paid for their Oyster Card.

Maybe I misunderstood. I assumed that the J door area was going to be sealed!

I seem to recall a few years ago thst there was a self evacuation from a Central line train just west of Leytonstone after an extended delay. The power was discharged just as a pushout was being arranged with a train stalled across the points.

In the aforementioned case, a safe escape route from a violent altercation.

Taking that literally, it means that passenger safety is secondary to staff safety. I would hope that they are treated as of equal importance.

Indeed, but the quote was from management, not the union

LU produced specific procedures for bladed weapon (axes included) or firearm attacks in response to the Leytonstone incident in December 2015, we all got a one-to-one briefing with a manager or instructor operator.

I don't think anyone was suggesting JUST a magnetic lock. It would be in addition to the usual J-door latching mechanism. Another "point of control" is the release of the manual override itself, but unless the whole of that unit is replaced with some other mechanism, the easiest and fastest retrofit would seem to be a failsafe electromagnetic coil fitted in the door recess holding back a plate screwed to the door. Messing around with the insides of the door or the cab wall itself in order to fit a longer lock which has a custom electromagnetic interlock would seem to be a more extensive job, as well as possibly requiring a different engineered piece for every type of stock instead of using externally mounted, standard commercial off-the-shelf components.