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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 13, 2018 11:48:30 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 11:58:54 GMT
Why only ballot Acton? Surely if this is a network wide issue then all ASLEF drivers and RMT should of been balloted
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 13, 2018 17:53:41 GMT
Why only ballot Acton? Surely if this is a network wide issue then all ASLEF drivers and RMT should of been balloted As far as I'm aware its not an issue on the Central but then we're an ATO line so we don't have much of a SPAD problem. It could just be Acton Town management who are trying to be clever with the procedures while Upminster, Barking and the rest are playing by the book.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 19, 2018 20:01:54 GMT
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
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Post by hobbayne on Mar 20, 2018 0:18:18 GMT
What happened? Did the driver get dipped to stations?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 20, 2018 5:34:06 GMT
What happened? Did the driver get dipped to stations? I understand the individual had three safety related incidents, was called into an interview (without Union representatives) and was warned that another incident would put them in breach of the agreed SPAD Policy. A Management suggestion of taking alternative employment or facing ‘the inevitable’ fourth incident and instant CDi was met with agreement with the individual to take alternative employment. This is against the said agreed SPAD Policy.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 20, 2018 13:05:50 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Mar 20, 2018 14:56:22 GMT
What percentage of District drivers are based at Acton?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 20, 2018 15:32:42 GMT
What percentage of District drivers are based at Acton? rostered staff (excluding pool staff): Upminster 132 Barking (District) 66 Earl’s Ct 141 Acton Town 114
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 16:24:53 GMT
I didn't realise it was that many
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 20, 2018 20:20:25 GMT
New date announced as Wednesday 11 April
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 27, 2018 14:45:52 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 9, 2018 7:31:52 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 11, 2018 15:41:13 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Apr 11, 2018 15:44:00 GMT
Any ideas of the possible service pattern? I assume that there will need to be a special timetable in place?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 12, 2018 8:10:47 GMT
In the past when a driver on a manual line had numerous SPADs they were sent to an ATO line, most commonly the Victoria as it struggles to get enough drivers due to it being completely subsurface apart from Northumberland Park. Seven Sisters was akin to a Siberian Gulag - the place where the exiles were sent - until they opened Brixton depot which has proved even less popular than Seven Sisters and now that is the new "Gulag".
So why wasn't the driver offered a transfer? We're short of drivers on the Central Line and are cancelling trains
Also the safety issue is nonsense, if you SPAD you get tripped and pull up in a heap, you can't move the train until you've reset the tripcock, etc. so its not as if you're going to be running into the back of the train in front
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Post by brigham on Apr 12, 2018 8:21:11 GMT
The situation seems to revolve around 'did he jump, or was he pushed?'.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 12, 2018 9:58:34 GMT
The situation was he (is it a he?) had three SPADs in 11 weeks, management said if he had a fourth SPAD he'd be sacked and he should agree to a move back to stations. Had an ASLEF rep been present at the time they would have told them that management was giving him incorrect information. They lied and now they're trying to cover themselves. The press/media/public are accepting their story and blaming the union for a situation that was created by management ignoring agreed procedure. Again.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 12, 2018 10:01:57 GMT
Regardless of taking sides, three SPAD’s in 11 weeks is a lot. However, we don’t know the circumstances behind them so it would be unfair to pass judgment.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 12, 2018 10:35:56 GMT
Regardless of taking sides, three SPAD’s in 11 weeks is a lot. However, we don’t know the circumstances behind them so it would be unfair to pass judgment. Irrespective of the severity of the incidents, the agreed Policy is “normally after 4 such incidents”.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 12, 2018 10:38:14 GMT
Regardless of taking sides, three SPAD’s in 11 weeks is a lot. However, we don’t know the circumstances behind them so it would be unfair to pass judgment. Irrespective of the severity of the incidents, the agreed Policy is “normally after 4 such incidents”. Use of the word “normally” surely could lead to problems?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 12, 2018 10:44:09 GMT
Use of the word “normally” surely could lead to problems? Precisely why the dispute exists. Union thinks “normally after 4” is not classed as 3.
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Post by londonstuff on Apr 12, 2018 11:52:28 GMT
Of course I don't know the details behind it but you could imagine someone well-meaning in management was trying to stop them getting sacked by offering them alternative.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 12, 2018 11:59:15 GMT
While I agree three SPADs in 11 weeks is a lot the driver would have undergone at least two months actual driving training with an Instructor Operator and they wouldn't have been let out on their own unless the trainers thought they were capable. After each SPAD there should have been a "corrective action plan" and if necessary they could have been sent back for further training.
And as I mentioned if they were completely unable to drive on a manual line the usual procedure is to send them to an ATO line where there's a lot less chance of them having a SPAD.
The interview where they were told that four SPADs and they'd be sacked should never have happened without union representation. Management took advantage of the driver's inexperience and used that against them
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 12, 2018 12:03:56 GMT
Of course I don't know the details behind it but you could imagine someone well-meaning in management was trying to stop them getting sacked by offering them alternative. Except you don't get sacked for having four SPADs, indeed you don't get sacked for any number of SPADs. You get sacked for an "aggravated" SPAD where you fail to follow the procedure. I've had two SPADs in my 14 and a bit years, both times I followed the procedure, both times I got a "Corrective Action Plan" which involved me driving with an IOp to monitor my manual driving.
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Post by brigham on Apr 12, 2018 12:19:08 GMT
I was under the impression that you 'normally' get sacked after four SPADs. Is it so, or not?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 12:41:06 GMT
Any ideas of the possible service pattern? I assume that there will need to be a special timetable in place? Some Picc’s will be going down the local to help the service
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Apr 12, 2018 12:47:34 GMT
Any ideas of the possible service pattern? I assume that there will need to be a special timetable in place? Some Picc’s will be going down the local to help the service By "some" I presume you mean just the Uxbridge ones .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 13:55:22 GMT
Couldn’t comment
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 13, 2018 2:52:00 GMT
I was under the impression that you 'normally' get sacked after four SPADs. Is it so, or not? As I said you don't sacked for SPADs unless they are aggravated
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