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Post by banana99 on Dec 20, 2017 1:45:32 GMT
Thought the map was good, giving a more graceful bend to the line between Whitechapel and Canary Wharf, until like a previous poster I noticed what had been sacrificed in order to accommodate it. Given the vast amount of data the tube map now conveys, and the inelegant way it is constantly tinkered with, perhaps the 'clockwork' design has now reached its limit? The tube map is ghastly and I think the final nail in the coffin was the expansion of the Overground at Liverpool St and also having a region of zone 2/3 fares. The problem now is that I don't believe TfL are brave enough to improve it. - At least you are not being overly dramatic or anything. I think I and the other 10 million people in London will live despite this extra, useful information on the map. But thanks awfully all the same |
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Dec 20, 2017 2:17:25 GMT
The tube map is ghastly and I think the final nail in the coffin was the expansion of the Overground at Liverpool St and also having a region of zone 2/3 fares. The problem now is that I don't believe TfL are brave enough to improve it. - At least you are not being overly dramatic or anything. I think I and the other 10 million people in London will live despite this extra, useful information on the map. But thanks awfully all the same I just voiced my opinion  . I don't think you can speak on behalf of ten million people however! |
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Post by banana99 on Dec 20, 2017 2:30:43 GMT
"the final nail in the coffin" - At least you are not being overly dramatic or anything. I think I and the other 10 million people in London will live despite this extra, useful information on the map. But thanks awfully all the same I just voiced my opinion . I don't think you can speak on behalf of ten million people however! I didn't. I just voiced an opinion that we will survive this "final nail in the coffin". What do you reckon? |
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Post by dmncf on Dec 20, 2017 9:59:48 GMT
The new Railway has made it onto the map: Without wishing to reopen the whole CrossRail/Elizabeth Line debate, I find it interesting that on the map key LUL lines are listed as just their name "Northern" "Circle" whereas the CrossRail line keeps the word 'line': "Elizabeth Line". Shouldn't the Bakerloo line at Paddington be shown as having step free access on this December 2018 map, through its link from the Elizabeth Line? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 10:13:03 GMT
In situations like this I’ve learnt to accept the wheelchair blobs will be incorrect on existing stations.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 20, 2017 12:25:02 GMT
The wheelchair blobs are a very blunt instrument that can never convey the full extent of needed information about what locations are accessible to wheelchair users (let alone anyone who needs step-free access for other reasons), even when they are correct. For example someone able to negotiate the step between the platform and train can make a journey from Willesden Junction to Vauxhall at present, despite the tube map showing this as impossible, but step-free interchange is not available at London Bridge (despite being shown as available on the tube map) other than by a long, crowded and (iirc) unsigned walk at street level. Far better imho to stop trying to show it on the main map and instead massively increase the prominent and availability of the step-free and avoiding stairs maps. </rant>
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Post by jimini on Dec 20, 2017 14:40:42 GMT
The wheelchair blobs are a very blunt instrument that can never convey the full extent of needed information about what locations are accessible to wheelchair users (let alone anyone who needs step-free access for other reasons), even when they are correct. For example someone able to negotiate the step between the platform and train can make a journey from Willesden Junction to Vauxhall at present, despite the tube map showing this as impossible, but step-free interchange is not available at London Bridge (despite being shown as available on the tube map) other than by a long, crowded and (iirc) unsigned walk at street level. Far better imho to stop trying to show it on the main map and instead massively increase the prominent and availability of the step-free and avoiding stairs maps. </rant> Amen to that! |
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Post by Jerome H on Dec 20, 2017 14:54:17 GMT
Honesty it’d be nice to see a box around the London Underground lines in the key that referred to them as “London Undergorund Lines” and a box for the others that said “Other TfL services”
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Post by superteacher on Dec 20, 2017 16:13:47 GMT
Honesty it’d be nice to see a box around the London Underground lines in the key that referred to them as “London Undergorund Lines” and a box for the others that said “Other TfL services” The truth is however, that most people don’t care if it’s underground, overground . . . |
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Post by holborncentral on Dec 20, 2017 17:43:16 GMT
From first glance, the Central line has got quite the swan neck in the City, the City Branch of the Northern line is more obtuse, the Mill Hill East branch is curving away more abruptly, the Highbury end of the Victoria line has got a weight on it, the Hammersmith end of the H&C is less rectangular in form, the DLR Stratford branch is now having to swerve clear of Crossrail on it's way up to the same location and the NW end of the Metropolitan line looks more elongated North of Rickmansworth and West of Ruislip. Disclaimer: The above are not criticisms nor an attempt at a complete list of observations just differences I picked out whilst looking at it for the first time, I am simply marvelling at the rapid impulsive distinctions that our brains pick out when something so familiar such as the tube map evolves into what looks from afar to be minor alterations. I noticed the same things as well when I looked up on the map and I saw comments on Twitter about it. The map is starting to look cluttered. I think TfL need to do two maps - the 'pure' LU map just showing tube lines and then the 'TfL' map with the DLR, Overground, Crossrail, trams and cable car on it. The Night Tube/Overground map doesn't need to be changed except when they add new routes to it. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 20, 2017 17:46:54 GMT
Apart from the purists and those with nostalgic thoughts, is there any use for a purely tube map anymore? Nowadays, London’s transport is so integrated compared to how it was a few years ago.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 20, 2017 18:08:06 GMT
Apart from the purists and those with nostalgic thoughts, is there any use for a purely tube map anymore? Nowadays, London’s transport is so integrated compared to how it was a few years ago. I think you're absolutely right. It's all to do with efficiently shifting the ever increasing number of people around London and no longer an iconic artistic statement and for everybody's benefit to try and get tourists, and others who aren't familiar with the system, spread onto as many of the alternatives to the core underground as possible and this is only possible by putting these alternatives front and centre - on the map. However, I'm fairly sure that when the digital version becomes the preponderance, a function will allow different aspects of rail travel to be addressed on separate layers for those traditionalists who only wish to see certain parts of the network. |
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Post by holborncentral on Dec 20, 2017 18:16:30 GMT
Honesty it’d be nice to see a box around the London Underground lines in the key that referred to them as “London Undergorund Lines” and a box for the others that said “Other TfL services” The truth is however, that most people don’t care if it’s underground, overground . . . I used to love The Wombles! I had the videos, books and soft toys. I still have them somewhere. Everytime we passed by Wimbledon Common my parents would start singing the Wombling song to me  Even now it sometimes gets stuck in my head when I think of the LU/Overground. |
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Post by littlejohn on Dec 20, 2017 19:13:05 GMT
Not Elizabeth Line I know, but relevant in respect of travelling to Reading. I had my first ride on a class 800 on Saturday (Paddington - Reading). Great except for those awful hard seats; I would hate to endure them on a long journey. The Networker Turbos (class 165) from Newbury to London are far more comfortable.
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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 20, 2017 19:35:00 GMT
Will this be the only edition of the Tube map that shows shows the unrebuilt (as of Dec 2018) Crossrail stations with notches instead of blobs?
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 480
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Post by londoner on Dec 20, 2017 19:38:45 GMT
I just voiced my opinion . I don't think you can speak on behalf of ten million people however! I didn't. I just voiced an opinion that we will survive this "final nail in the coffin". What do you reckon? I'm not clear as to why you've taken such a strong exception to that phrase. I've not said anywhere that others may hold that view, nor have I implied that others "can't go on". Apart from the purists and those with nostalgic thoughts, is there any use for a purely tube map anymore? Nowadays, London’s transport is so integrated compared to how it was a few years ago. I think you're absolutely right. It's all to do with efficiently shifting the ever increasing number of people around London and no longer an iconic artistic statement and for everybody's benefit to try and get tourists, and others who aren't familiar with the system, spread onto as many of the alternatives to the core underground as possible and this is only possible by putting these alternatives front and centre - on the map. However, I'm fairly sure that when the digital version becomes the preponderance, a function will allow different aspects of rail travel to be addressed on separate layers for those traditionalists who only wish to see certain parts of the network. I agree. Its already happening to bus maps I believe - slowly disappearing. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 21, 2017 0:37:39 GMT
Apart from the purists and those with nostalgic thoughts, is there any use for a purely tube map anymore? Nowadays, London’s transport is so integrated compared to how it was a few years ago. Is it really that integrated? OK it's had a decent amount of money spent on it but we have an incoherent set of services operated by the TOCs and a "one size fits all" approach to the presentation of TfL "rail" services that disregards the actual complexity of what is operated. The bus network is apparently no longer worthy of paper bus maps which, to my mind, shows the exact level of regard that TfL affords to bus passengers. I have read so many posts and comments about map based presentation of London's rail services and no two people can settle on an approriate scale of presentation for an incredibly complex network. I fear that those in a position of responsibility will never be able to create an appropriate and well liked rail services map for the London area. The sheer complexity and variability of service patterns in South London makes it virtually impossible to provide some level of clarity for numpties like me who are not intimately familiar with the services. The counter balance to that is that I have the TfL services engrained in my memory so I have no need of the Tube Map at all. I can do a range of those on line quizzes in well under the time and get every LU, DLR and LO station correct. I've just about mastered the west end of Crossrail (east end is no issue) and Tramlink. A coherent and clear map showing S London's rail service pattern would be immensely useful to me but with 3 or 4 or 5 (depending on how you count) TOCs who can't be bothered to co-ordinate anything I'll be a long time waiting for such a map. London Connections map is a step in the right direction but not detailed enough *for me*. I am sure others find it too complex for their needs. And I am afraid I don't believe digital presentation solves anything really but then I'm a bit of a luddite and not an early adopter of new technology.  |
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Post by goldenarrow on May 14, 2018 13:45:06 GMT
Interesting morphing of Heathrow with the expansion of TfL Rail out west spotted by @geofftech. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 14, 2018 16:34:38 GMT
Interesting morphing of Heathrow with the expansion of TfL Rail out west spotted by @geofftech. |
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. I don't think you can speak on behalf of ten million people however! 
Even now it sometimes gets stuck in my head when I think of the LU/Overground.
