londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Jun 26, 2017 9:12:37 GMT
What has happened to cause 4 lines to be suspended, the district and Piccadilly in full and the H&C and circle in part? Only just made it into work!
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Jun 26, 2017 10:03:24 GMT
Power supply to the signal control room ?
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cso
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Post by cso on Jun 26, 2017 13:06:20 GMT
The BBC said earlier: "Four Tube lines are still disrupted by a power failure at Earl's Court signalling centre,
The Circle line is suspended between Edgware Road and Aldgate via Embankment, while the District, Hammersmith & City and Piccadilly all have severe delays.
Meanwhile the London Overground has minor delays between New Cross Gate and West Croydon because of a faulty train at Brockley."
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Post by chris11256 on Jun 26, 2017 13:09:45 GMT
Apparently every train ended up stuck at a red signal, according to the Evening Standard anyway.
Doesn't look like it'll be sorted before I leave work at 15:30 and I'd rather not get the Jubilee Line. So far trains have been going through Westminster every 10/15 minutes eastbound.
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cso
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Post by cso on Jun 26, 2017 14:42:10 GMT
I'd imagine if control fails, that's the fail safe system so would seem logical to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 14:45:08 GMT
The main feed to the control room was lost it was reconfigured 15 or so mins later so everything west of Tower Hill on the District and Cockfosters to South Harrow and the whole of the Heathrow branch was lost
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Jun 26, 2017 16:29:50 GMT
The main feed to the control room was lost it was reconfigured 15 or so mins later so everything west of Tower Hill on the District and Cockfosters to South Harrow and the whole of the Heathrow branch was lost But the whole District line was suspended all the way to Upminster. What supply was lost DNO or LUL. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 17:02:43 GMT
LUL supply from Earls Court Sub Station
Can't say why it was suspended past Tower Hill going east as where it's not controlled from Earls Court it shouldn't of had an effect and the trains could of reversed at Whitechapel if need be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 17:04:33 GMT
The signalling outside would of worked but with no control or indications for what was going on on the ground they have to suspend.
They were gearing up to man all the IMR's affected but that wasn't needed in the end
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 17:08:48 GMT
They were gearing up to man all the IMR's affected but that wasn't needed in the end That would have been rather exciting  I mean it's more important that the service was put back together, but all the same |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 17:17:24 GMT
Trust me it's not it all comes thick and fast remember if the signaller is in Push Button mode he or she still only has to push 1 button to get the signal selected where as on the ground there could be multiple sets of points to get in the right order first plus any route or slot levers if involving more then 1 IMR.
Generally they will try and set up some sort of through running but it's not always the case for somewhere like Earls Court and Acton Town to name a few
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 17:31:53 GMT
Trust me it's not it all comes thick and fast remember if the signaller is in Push Button mode he or she still only has to push 1 button to get the signal selected where as on the ground there could be multiple sets of points to get in the right order first plus any route or slot levers if involving more then 1 IMR. Generally they will try and set up some sort of through running but it's not always the case for somewhere like Earls Court and Acton Town to name a few Real signalling Ahh I'm sure it's not nearly as fun in the hot cramped rooms as it is in my imagination, but still, it would have been quite the novelty, not every day a V frame gets worked by hand during traffic hours |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 18:30:13 GMT
Don't forget the N styles either
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 19:27:26 GMT
Don't forget the N styles either No indeed! But there's one of those in daily use at Whitechapel |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 26, 2017 19:41:26 GMT
N styles? Come on guys, explain!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 20:15:47 GMT
N styles? Come on guys, explain! A reference to the varying types used in mechanical lever frames such as the miniature power lever frames that came from Westinghouse Brake & Signalling Co. For example Edgware Road (OP) Signal Cabin has a K Style frame featuring spring loaded full stroke levers each of which are specifically dedicated to a signal or a set of points. Harrow-On-The-Hill (JB) is an N Style 95 lever frame, 45 of these are "route" levers which are kept in the mid-stroke (middle) position, when pushed/pulled a number of "slave" levers moved by compressed air will move individual point and signal slots to execute the route clearance. This website gives the list of the numerous types of miniature power lever frames from Westinghouse that were and in some cases still are in operation. It also lists patents of the various lever frames including cut away diagrams of the various types of lever frames used. This video shows Barking's Main V Style Interlocking Machine Room (IMR) at work. These miniature levers as you will hear are operated by compressed air in response to the push button panels on the main desk. In the event of a failure akin to the one at Earls Court, the air supply can be isolated and the levers worked by hand but as already mentioned this is a ridiculously tedious process in areas with a complex track/route layout such as Earls Court. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 20:22:51 GMT
N styles? Come on guys, explain! Ummmmm - depends a bit on how much explanation you want This will be simplified This is a power frame . It's fairly simple to understand how it operates, your red levers are for your signals. So if you have a look at this picture, lever 1 operates a signal. When you have lever 1 pulled towards you like that (we say it is 'reverse'), signal EN1 will clear, it goes green. You can see that the light on the lever plate is out to confirm that the signal is 'off' (green). That light will light up when the signal is returned to danger by the passage of a train, so the light can be illuminated with the lever reverse. Once the train has passed the signal you'll be able to restore the lever to the normal position in the frame. Until then it's electrically locked. The way this actually works is through electrical contacts. So when you pull the lever reverse it will send an electrical signal down to the signal on the ground to make it go green. That's the essence of it.
Black levers are points. So, it's not such a good picture, but you can see 18 here is a points lever. When you pull number 18 lever reverse it will send an electrical signal down to the points machine on the ground which will move the points to the reverse position, either by compressed air or electricity or whatever, I don't know what they use on 18 points at Whitechapel really When the points have moved and have been detected as fully in position and locked an R will light up on the lever plate. When the points are in the normal position, you have an N behind the lever plate as in the picture.
Now, the key point is not really the handles on the top, but what's in the cabinet on the bottom: mechanical interlocking. When you move the handle of the lever on the top, bits of metal move about underneath. It's not so easy to explain with words, you really want to have a look inside a cabinet, but essentially if I move a particular lever, by purely mechanical means, other levers will be locked or released. The point of all of this is twofold. The first is so that I cannot set up conflicting routes. So observe the diagram here. It will not be physically possible for me to clear 36 and 37 at the same time. If I move lever 36 reverse that will lock 37 in position, I won't be able to move it, because there'll be a bit of metal in the way. The other thing it does is interlock points and signals. If I want 37 clear, I need 18 points reverse. So I will not be physically able to move 37 lever reverse until I have moved 18 lever reverse, because 37 lever will be locked. When I move 18 lever it will free up 37 lever but it will also lock 36 lever. Those are the mechanical locks there are electrical locks on the levers as well and it all gets jolly interesting.
Now the point of 'N' style is it designates the type of frame in use. Whitechapel uses an N frame which is why I chose it. Hammersmith also uses an N frame, which a certain moderator is quite familiar with The N style frame is a variant on the Westinghouse L style frame, but with mechanical interlocking as I described, but electric control of points and signals and with some electrical locking and the levers are locked by the track circuits as well, so it can all get very pedantic
Anyway that is a simplification, I'm sure there're a few errors in there. But in any case, Aldgate also used to have an N style frame and you can see it in use in this video:
You can also see the electrical locking on the levers in that video.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 20:42:00 GMT
N styles? Come on guys, explain! Ummmmm - depends a bit on how much explanation you want This will be simplified This is a power frame . It's fairly simple to understand how it operates, your red levers are for your signals. So if you have a look at this picture, lever 1 operates a signal. When you have lever 1 pulled towards you like that (we say it is 'reverse'), signal EN1 will clear, it goes green. You can see that the light on the lever plate is out to confirm that the signal is 'off' (green). That light will light up when the signal is returned to danger by the passage of a train, so the light can be illuminated with the lever reverse. Once the train has passed the signal you'll be able to restore the lever to the normal position in the frame. Until then it's electrically locked. The way this actually works is through electrical contacts. So when you pull the lever reverse it will send an electrical signal down to the signal on the ground to make it go green. That's the essence of it.
I would go on to describe the numbering ranges of the points/signal levers but I think I will leave that for another time... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 20:52:13 GMT
What did I start  Oh btw that vid on YouTube is Barking (Main) IMR it has 3 in total |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 26, 2017 20:55:55 GMT
Comprehensive replies there guys, thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 21:04:48 GMT
This video shows Barking's Main V Style Interlocking Machine Room (IMR) at work. These miniature levers as you will hear are operated by compressed air in response to the push button panels on the main desk. In the event of a failure akin to the one at Earls Court, the air supply can be isolated and the levers worked by hand but as already mentioned this is a ridiculously tedious process in areas with a complex track/route layout such as Earls Court. And this is that push button desk. Take, for example, button FF19 A, which you can see in the fourth row - it's the fifth button from the right. Pressing that button will cause 33, 35, 36 and 19 levers to move, all at the press of one button. You would have to move them all yourself - and put them all back when they were finished with - if you were operating the frame by hand. By the way I think those levers are actually in Barking West IMR and aren't in the frame shown in the video, but I chose that button because I know it moves a lot of levers |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 0:28:54 GMT
19 is in the west IMR in the vid the point lever is 40's which takes you into the siding
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 0:39:30 GMT
19 is in the west IMR in the vid the point lever is 40's which takes you into the siding I thought it was 39 into Barking sidings, with 40 points from the main into the bay road platform 3. (By the way, I'm not quoting this off the top of my head, I say 'I thought' because I checked a diagram that may be out of date, rather than because I have the points numbers in the Barking area memorised ) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 4:44:34 GMT
My error you are right 40 into the bay 39 into the reception road for the sidings
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 4:45:13 GMT
19 is in the west IMR in the vid the point lever is 40's which takes you into the siding I thought it was 39 into Barking sidings, with 40 points from the main into the bay road platform 3. (By the way, I'm not quoting this off the top of my head, I say 'I thought' because I checked a diagram that may be out of date, rather than because I have the points numbers in the Barking area memorised ) Where 38 points then? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 13:13:33 GMT
I thought it was 39 into Barking sidings, with 40 points from the main into the bay road platform 3. (By the way, I'm not quoting this off the top of my head, I say 'I thought' because I checked a diagram that may be out of date, rather than because I have the points numbers in the Barking area memorised ) Where 38 points then? Well according to the diagram 38 points are for the trap road at the east end of the reception road, protecting moves entering and leaving the sidings to platform 6 in the even of a SPAD at FF49. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 27, 2017 13:37:27 GMT
Well according to the diagram 38 points are for the trap road at the east end of the reception road, protecting moves entering and leaving the sidings to platform 6 in the even of a SPAD at FF49.I believe 38 trap-points were removed last year (11-12 July) with work undertaken at 31/35/36 points. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 13:40:27 GMT
Well according to the diagram 38 points are for the trap road at the east end of the reception road, protecting moves entering and leaving the sidings to platform 6 in the even of a SPAD at FF49.I believe 38 trap-points were removed last year (or maybe 2015) with work undertaken at 39A/39B. Ahhhh, that's interesting to know, thanks =) How come it was able to be removed? Better stopping distances from the S7s, or are you just not allowed to approach FF49 with 37 reverse? The dangers of using old diagrams bit me in the end, then |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 14:48:00 GMT
That's the reason why I asked that trick question |
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Post by 1018509 on Jun 27, 2017 19:37:40 GMT
N Styles. Wasn't that something to do with the world cup in '66?
<I'll get me coat.>
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I mean it's more important that the service was put back together, but all the same 
