Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 22, 2022 21:56:14 GMT
The Circular has the speeds as mph quite deliberately, as this is what is presented to Train Operators and those are the relevant speeds.
However, everything leading up to the display on the train is done in km/h, from the track engineer's declaration of permitted speeds, to the values the VCC operators input when setting TSRs. It's just as @aetearlscourt says, the train converts to keep the display constant for the train operator regardless of whether they're in a legacy signalled area with speed signs in mph or in the CBTC area.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 23, 2022 0:53:32 GMT
Disappointed to learn that the 53 / 55 / 60 speeds are metric rather than mph - was hoping for faster travel at speeds higher than the mid 30's mph (60km/h is 37mph).
There was a type of District Railway rolling stock (1920s? later known as F stock?) which when first built had some DM's with 4 motors that were later thought to be too powerful, so had some of the motors cut out (electronically disconnected) and eventually had them completely removed. I bet these would have reached the quoted mph speeds!
Apologies for my previous message in this thread being slightly garbled - I often burn much midnight oil and often forget to proof read.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 23, 2022 10:39:17 GMT
Yes F stock could shift as could the A stock although there were fewer stations in the 1920s and many trains skip stopped stations. I bet the inner town speeds were comparable with todays speeds though.
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Post by roman80 on Mar 23, 2022 21:47:24 GMT
Is a working timetable change anticipated once SMA5 is bedded in to take into account the faster journey times potentially available in zone 1?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 24, 2022 6:00:21 GMT
Is a working timetable change anticipated once SMA5 is bedded in to take into account the faster journey times potentially available in zone 1? Nothing on the horizon. Jubilee to change 15 May Northern 27 June Piccadilly & Metropolitan 18 July. District H&C will probably wait until after SMA 6 (June) and possibly 7. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 15:52:33 GMT
Think the district will wait till SMA7 so it will include Upminster
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Post by jimbo on Mar 24, 2022 19:51:34 GMT
Given abandonment of plans for resignalling the western branches due to tight finances, Upminster will complete the District resignalling, apart from some tidying up which will have little effect on run times.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 24, 2022 22:47:51 GMT
Given abandonment of plans for resignalling the western branches due to tight finances, Upminster will complete the District resignalling, apart from some tidying up which will have little effect on run times. Does not just save money but also complexity - said with Wimbledon and Richmond routes in mind. But for the fact that the signalling is life-expired and therefore money will need spending 'anyway', similar could have been done north and west of Harrow-On-The-Hill. Whilst Network Rail will not now see the mixing of automated and human driven trains on their tracks they will still be able to see this on LU tracks - for the second time (said with the Central line in mind) |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 25, 2022 21:14:55 GMT
Given abandonment of plans for resignalling the western branches due to tight finances, Upminster will complete the District resignalling, apart from some tidying up which will have little effect on run times. The resignalling to East Putney and Stamford Brook may have little effect on run times but in terms of improving the age profile of the assets it's hardly a bit of tidying up. The signalling at Parsons Green reached it's design life some twenty-two years ago, the signalling at Hammersmith achieved the same milestone nineteen years ago. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2022 22:35:12 GMT
Given abandonment of plans for resignalling the western branches due to tight finances, Upminster will complete the District resignalling, apart from some tidying up which will have little effect on run times. The resignalling to East Putney and Stamford Brook may have little effect on run times but in terms of improving the age profile of the assets it's hardly a bit of tidying up. The signalling at Parsons Green reached it's design life some twenty-two years ago, the signalling at Hammersmith achieved the same milestone nineteen years ago. Putney Bridge and the state of the signalling in the area is the main reason its being extended to East Putney. It was cheaper then to rewire the site and PG to modern standards. |
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 26, 2022 10:52:12 GMT
Going the whole way to East Putney also makes sense because its LU / NR boundary, after which the signalling would have become more exotic / interesting / innovative.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 26, 2022 11:25:41 GMT
Going the whole way to East Putney also makes sense because its LU / NR boundary, after which the signalling would have become more exotic / interesting / innovative. District trains would remain on LU infrastructure until Wimbledon platforms. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 26, 2022 22:27:49 GMT
Going the whole way to East Putney also makes sense because its LU / NR boundary, after which the signalling would have become more exotic / interesting / innovative. District trains would remain on LU infrastructure until Wimbledon platforms. Isn't it LU infrastructure, signalled by Network Rail? Or has that changed now? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 26, 2022 22:34:00 GMT
District trains would remain on LU infrastructure until Wimbledon platforms. Isn't it LU infrastructure, signalled by Network Rail? Or has that changed now? That is indeed the case. Extending CBTC to East Putney does give its own problems such as straddling the boundary for traction current supplies, and hence which set of rules applies. My personal preference would have been to end the system at Putney Bridge and provide some new fixed block signals (probably controlled by Thales axle counters) to replace the existing signals in the area. It would have probably needed three signals at most (replacing WG14, WG13 and WG2). |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 27, 2022 8:43:00 GMT
Another milestone finally reached, SMA 5 authorised for passenger use from 0900 today, has been running without passengers since 1220 yesterday.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 27, 2022 10:38:16 GMT
Rather than start a new thread I'm placing this here - as I suspect it is all connected.
I've seen a photo showing the historic District Line train describers at Earls Court with the station names replaced by boards showing the following message (in block capitals, as shown here):
PLEASE USE
ALTERNATIVE
PLATFORM
DESTINATION
SCREENS
Its not my photo so for copyright reasons I cannot share it here.
My thoughts and question: oh dear, that suggests they could not get the computerised signalling system to integrate with the historic train describers (or ran out of money to do this?) - I would have been happier if they had retained the destinations as at Gloucester Road westbound, albeit perhaps if any changes are felt neccessary then with the arrows covered.
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 27, 2022 10:48:43 GMT
Rather than start a new thread I'm placing this here - as I suspect it is all connected. I've seen a photo showing the historic District Line train describers at Earls Court with the station names replaced by boards showing the following message (in block capitals, as shown here): PLEASE USE ALTERNATIVE PLATFORM DESTINATION SCREENS Its not my photo so for copyright reasons I cannot share it here. My thoughts and question: oh dear, that suggests they could not get the computerised signalling system to integrate with the historic train describers (or ran out of money to do this?) - I would have been happier if they had retained the destinations as at Gloucester Road westbound, albeit perhaps if any changes are felt neccessary then with the arrows covered. The light box indicators at Earls Court are in the process of being converted to draw from the new CBTC data feeds. Due to the specialist nature of this work, they are anticipated to be switched off for a short while hence the covers. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 27, 2022 11:06:48 GMT
I've seen a photo showing the historic District Line train describers at Earls Court with the station names replaced by boards showing the following message (in block capitals, as shown here): PLEASE USE ALTERNATIVE PLATFORM DESTINATION INFORMATION SCREENS Its not my photo so for copyright reasons I cannot share it here.  unfortunately not in Johnston font  |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 27, 2022 21:15:46 GMT
unfortunately not in Johnston font But then neither were the originals - these, of course, pre-date the Johnston typeface by several years. |
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 27, 2022 22:29:10 GMT
Hmm, no matter what the official name is I see them as 'destination' screens as (unlike dot-matrix screens / displays) that is the only information they can impart. So almost certainly that is why I accidentally used the wrong word in in my earlier message.
Fortunately I have never worked in forensics.
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Post by Chris L on Mar 28, 2022 5:25:19 GMT
unfortunately not in Johnston font  But then neither were the originals - these, of course, pre-date the Johnston typeface by several years. A total waste of money. They could have been covered with simpler temporary signage. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 28, 2022 7:30:53 GMT
Why would temporary signage be necessarily significantly cheaper than temporary signage?
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Post by miff on Mar 28, 2022 8:16:04 GMT
Why would temporary signage be necessarily significantly cheaper than temporary signage? Because someone has gone to great care (and no doubt expense, though maybe not as much as some might think (or maybe more)) to design and manufacture temporary signs which fit perfectly inside the frames. Which also makes me worry that they might be planned to be there for a long time since so much effort has been taken (hope I'm wrong). Whereas the same message could probably have been conveyed by a simpler and cheaper covering, temporarily fixed to the outside of these signs - no-one minds ugly looking temporary signs (so long as they're clear) if they're only going to be there a few weeks. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 28, 2022 9:10:03 GMT
Design will have been a ~10 minute job I suspect given that the dimensions required for the signs are well known given that new ones have been required to be made every so often over the years. Manufacturing will be nothing more complicated than printing and cutting to size, almost certainly routine. Installation would be trivial.
In contrast something different would need to be designed to fit on or over the signs, securely, without damaging the listed asset, without interfering with anything else. They would have almost certainly required more material and probably have been more difficult to install.
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Post by Chris L on Mar 28, 2022 9:28:00 GMT
Design will have been a ~10 minute job I suspect given that the dimensions required for the signs are well known given that new ones have been required to be made every so often over the years. Manufacturing will be nothing more complicated than printing and cutting to size, almost certainly routine. Installation would be trivial. In contrast something different would need to be designed to fit on or over the signs, securely, without damaging the listed asset, without interfering with anything else. They would have almost certainly required more material and probably have been more difficult to install. A bit longer than 10 minutes. I'm glad you think that installation would be trivial. Then again I never worked with temporary signing at Earl's Court (or did I?) |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 28, 2022 13:36:56 GMT
Trivial perhaps a bit strong a word for it, but given you are installing something in a space that was designed to have things of this exact size and shape installed it's hardly going to require much figuring out how to do it. Especially compared to alternatives.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 28, 2022 14:36:52 GMT
Thankfully just blue vinyl stickers over existing plates
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 28, 2022 14:58:22 GMT
That's even cheaper and easier to install than I was thinking.
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Post by Chris L on Mar 28, 2022 15:05:10 GMT
Trivial perhaps a bit strong a word for it, but given you are installing something in a space that was designed to have things of this exact size and shape installed it's hardly going to require much figuring out how to do it. Especially compared to alternatives. "Not in use" on the bottom panel and plain vinyl over the rest would have been a lot simpler and easier to read and understand. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 28, 2022 17:32:09 GMT
I can't see the issue.
I think that what's been done at Earls Court is actually very good and well thought out.
Rather putting up an unhelpful "Not in use" sign on only a small part and leaving the rest plain blue as suggested, somebody has had the sense to put a message up which prompts customers use their eyes and seek out other signs on the platform which are providing the information they're looking for.
How can in better to provide a blank plain blue area and a not in use sign over a message that says you might wanna have a look at our other signs? What strange stance to adopt!
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