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Post by 100andthirty on Jan 13, 2023 18:01:43 GMT
Apropos the question about taking the trains through the Channel Tunnel, are there any physical connections between DLR and the main line network? I can't think of any.
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Post by jimbo on Jan 13, 2023 22:17:55 GMT
Do we have a numbering scheme for the new trains? What car is 201D? What does the D represent?
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Post by Chris M on Jan 13, 2023 23:51:34 GMT
Apropos the question about taking the trains through the Channel Tunnel, are there any physical connections between DLR and the main line network? I can't think of any. No. The DLR network is entirely self-contained. It runs parallel to Network Rail between just north of Bow Church and Stratford and between Limehouse and Tower Gateway, it also runs parallel to the Jubilee line between Stratford and Canning Town but that's as close as it gets. The trains would be out-of-gauge for the Jubilee line tunnels but I don't know about NR.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 13, 2023 23:59:09 GMT
Do we have a numbering scheme for the new trains? What car is 201D? What does the D represent? All that is public about the numbering scheme is that the first train is numbered 201, it is likely that this will be the lowest-numbered of the new trains. Multiple units (and I think locomotives) commonly have A and D ends (B and C are used to refer to the sides) so I expect that 201D indicates that it is one of the driving cars (but this is entirely guesswork).
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Post by thinlizzy on Jan 14, 2023 0:51:13 GMT
Do we have a numbering scheme for the new trains? What car is 201D? What does the D represent? Will just be similar to now, the current DLR fleet has an "A" end and a "B" end- the D is probably just the "D" section of the vehicle. I'm not back at Beckton until later next week so haven't seen the rest of the vehicle "in person"
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Post by quex on Jan 14, 2023 7:12:38 GMT
Are they being dragged through the Channel Tunnel? Apropos the question about taking the trains through the Channel Tunnel, are there any physical connections between DLR and the main line network? I can't think of any. I'd hazard a guess that the wheel conicity of the DLR trains effectively prevents them being hauled on the mainline. Happy to be corrected though.
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Post by d7666 on Jan 14, 2023 7:25:51 GMT
Are they being dragged through the Channel Tunnel? Apropos the question about taking the trains through the Channel Tunnel, are there any physical connections between DLR and the main line network? I can't think of any. I'd hazard a guess that the wheel conicity of the DLR trains effectively prevents them being hauled on the mainline. Happy to be corrected though. No idea but conicity is a very good suggestion. And braking ? Is DLR braking same or slight variant as LU or main line stock ? If it is significantly different there may not exist the translator kit to haul it, which means unbraked load, in turn all the hassle with that. And couplers ? They may be of the generic Scharfenburg type (well thats what they look like***) but there are Scharfenburgs and there are Scharfenburgs and not all will directly couple to each other. Especially where there is a height difference. Which means to whatever you couple it to for main line hauling you need a mechanical adapter. None of this is impossible to work around but putting them on a back of a lorry might be the better business sense as any special coupler or braking would need design testing and approval for every country it works through plus Eurotunnel infrastucture. *** note that a Dellner or a Voith coupler that looks like that is really a licenced Scharfenburg; generically they are the same thing; academic if it won't couple to anything on main line anyway.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 14, 2023 14:30:31 GMT
Maybe they still travel through the Channel Tunnel . on the back of lorries on the special trains designed for HGV's?
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Post by Chris M on Jan 14, 2023 21:30:34 GMT
Today's Railways in twitter has a photograph of the driving car arriving
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Post by ijmad on Jan 15, 2023 12:30:48 GMT
Judging by the foreign plate on the lorry I guess they came all the way from the factory on the low loader rather than via rail (directly).
Still, amusing to think of a train on the back of a lorry on a freight car of Le Shuttle.
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Post by Deep Level on Jan 19, 2023 7:43:43 GMT
I always assumed the blue and white was just a test livery, I'm quite surprised to see that it's the actual livery. I'm sure it's an opinion many won't share but I think the colours look terrible!
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Post by t697 on Jan 19, 2023 10:21:50 GMT
I quite like the new livery. I wonder how well it will look after some weathering though.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 19, 2023 13:01:08 GMT
From comments on various forums and social media, the livery seems to attract the full spectrum of opinions from love to hate! Personally I'm not at either extreme - it's OK but rather dull and (imo) they could have done better. I do wonder what it would have looked like with a corporate blue skirt, white window surrounds and teal doors.
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Post by Chris L on Jan 19, 2023 13:34:19 GMT
From comments on various forums and social media, the livery seems to attract the full spectrum of opinions from love to hate! Personally I'm not at either extreme - it's OK but rather dull and (imo) they could have done better. I do wonder what it would have looked like with a corporate blue skirt, white window surrounds and teal doors. Why corporate blue? The corporate DLR colour has been used.
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Post by xplaistow on Jan 19, 2023 17:00:49 GMT
I kind of like the new livery although there is a part of me (the childhood nostalgia part of me I assume) that would like to see something similar to the original dark blue with red stripe livery. I always liked that livery and I still don't get why they changed it for a red all over one instead.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 19, 2023 17:21:56 GMT
Question 1: Will the seat fabric on these trains have the same patters as on Tramlink & the Elizabeth line - but in DLR Teal?
Question 2: Will they have fully informative route information inside the trains? By this I mean LCD (or similar) maps with lights (illuminated blobs in a different colours) showing every station the train will be calling at, which sides the doors will open on and even (where applicable) the interchange possibilities at the next station. Preferably bus and train but if only train it will still be similar to what I have seen overseas and have not seen here in the UK.
re: the exterior livery, once my "shock of the new" had worn off my thought was / is "meh". It is what it is. Neither lovable nor detestable.
Plain might be a bit boring but the wrong sort of multi-coloured and patterned could end up being far far worse!
I would like to see the letters DLR or the word Docklands on the side of some of the carriages.
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Post by Deep Level on Jan 19, 2023 18:48:52 GMT
Question 1: Will the seat fabric on these trains have the same patters as on Tramlink & the Elizabeth line - but in DLR Teal? Question 2: Will they have fully informative route information inside the trains? By this I mean LCD (or similar) maps with lights (illuminated blobs in a different colours) showing every station the train will be calling at, which sides the doors will open on and even (where applicable) the interchange possibilities at the next station. Preferably bus and train but if only train it will still be similar to what I have seen overseas and have not seen here in the UK. re: the exterior livery, once my "shock of the new" had worn off my thought was / is "meh". It is what it is. Neither lovable nor detestable. Plain might be a bit boring but the wrong sort of multi-coloured and patterned could end up being far far worse! I would like to see the letters DLR or the word Docklands on the side of some of the carriages. Photo from a Twitter post:
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Post by Chris M on Jan 20, 2023 0:57:30 GMT
Question 2: Will they have fully informative route information inside the trains? By this I mean LCD (or similar) maps with lights (illuminated blobs in a different colours) showing every station the train will be calling at, which sides the doors will open on and even (where applicable) the interchange possibilities at the next station. Preferably bus and train but if only train it will still be similar to what I have seen overseas and have not seen here in the UK. I don't know what is planned, but if there is anything it is going to be more similar to what is on the Elizabeth line, LO Class 720s or Thameslink trains than maps with individual lights.
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Post by brigham on Jan 20, 2023 8:33:03 GMT
I'm glad we've moved away from diagonal slashes, or partial giant logos.
'Insulfish' white doesn't always wear well, though. Perhaps the Docklands air is cleaner now?
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Post by A60stock on Jan 20, 2023 10:34:25 GMT
From comments on various forums and social media, the livery seems to attract the full spectrum of opinions from love to hate! Personally I'm not at either extreme - it's OK but rather dull and (imo) they could have done better. I do wonder what it would have looked like with a corporate blue skirt, white window surrounds and teal doors. Why corporate blue? The corporate DLR colour has been used. The reason the OP mentions the Corporate blue is because this has been a part of the standard TFL livery style on LU and LO, with the difference being the colour of the doors to match the colour scheme, e.g. orange for over ground. Although on saying that, the Elizabeth line and DLR have never followed this style. IMO it should be consistent and the teal doors (or purple with the Liz line), blue skirt and white body/window surrounds was what I had been expecting for both the new DLR and Crossrail trains. But perhaps the style is changing to what we are seeing on the DLR and Liz line and maybe something similar will one day appear on LU. In addition the Trams in Croydon also have a similar livery but I appreciate the doors are black rather than green.
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Post by Chris L on Jan 20, 2023 18:16:48 GMT
The reason the OP mentions the Corporate blue is because this has been a part of the standard TFL livery style on LU and LO, with the difference being the colour of the doors to match the colour scheme, e.g. orange for over ground. Although on saying that, the Elizabeth line and DLR have never followed this style. IMO it should be consistent and the teal doors (or purple with the Liz line), blue skirt and white body/window surrounds was what I had been expecting for both the new DLR and Crossrail trains. But perhaps the style is changing to what we are seeing on the DLR and Liz line and maybe something similar will one day appear on LU. In addition the Trams in Croydon also have a similar livery but I appreciate the doors are black rather than green. The Underground livery was created so that roundels appeared on white/silver background as specified by the Design Manual. Other liveries break the rules.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 22, 2023 23:39:54 GMT
Photo from a Twitter post: Thanks for sharing, erm, um, OK, its bright, garish and aquamarine. There is a different 'special needs' colour scheme. I think I'm starting to feel seasick
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 22, 2023 23:42:58 GMT
I don't know what is planned, but if there is anything it is going to be more similar to what is on the Elizabeth line, LO Class 720s or Thameslink trains than maps with individual lights. Thanks, exactly what I was not wanting ... compared to what other places have, we will get second rate with less clarity and a constantly changing information display.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 23, 2023 4:48:02 GMT
Actually I have to disagree that that sort of display is "second rate" - it provides much more information, more clearly and can cope with non-standard working and changes en-route, etc. If you look at the video of the mockup in this post from 2021 and go to 3:28 you can what the displays will probably look similar to.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 23, 2023 11:40:31 GMT
Actually I have to disagree that that sort of display is "second rate" - it provides much more information, more clearly and can cope with non-standard working and changes en-route, etc. If you look at the video of the mockup in this post from 2021 and go to 3:28 you can what the displays will probably look similar to. I do not remember seeing that video and am baffled as to why not. Anyway, if it does actually show the whole route the train is on, end to end, then it will be an improvement on what exists elsewhere in London. The train end looks much more like a driver's cab with the partition between the cab and the passenger area removed than on existing DLR trains. Maybe a larger crumple zone in case of a crash was desired - or just a standard feature on this range of CAF trains - after all this is more like a heavy rail metro (underground railway) train than the light rail vehicles the DLR has used since it first opened. It does mean that front seat passengers will be further away from the windows. However, perhaps the covers over the control consoles will act as excellent camera stands (will only need a bean bag below the camera).
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Post by t697 on Jan 23, 2023 13:02:18 GMT
I think provision of a suitable camera stand for passengers was missed from the train spec!
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Post by 100andthirty on Jan 23, 2023 15:35:43 GMT
Having looked again at the video of the mock up, I think there are going to be some interesting converstaions with Passener Services Agents about: The spacing of the seat relative to the controls; the size of the windscreens; and, in particular, the view of the platform mirrors/monitors providing a view of the platform when these controls are in use.
It's always difficut to judge from a video but all three points look worse than the existing trains.
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Post by t697 on Jan 23, 2023 15:56:37 GMT
I think the consultation has already happened, using the mock up. As mentioned a while ago in this thread, there is an enabling project to address the platform mirror/monitor point but I don't know what solution is being implemented. Let's hope others can post more info.
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Post by 100andthirty on Jan 23, 2023 20:15:47 GMT
As we know from other train introductions, what gets accepted on mock ups sometimes doesn't look right when the real train gets onto real track.#!
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Post by jimbo on Jan 25, 2023 4:18:22 GMT
The manufacture of the new DLR rolling stock in Spain is continuing as planned, with seven trains completed and on their test track to run checks. We took delivery of the first train at our Beckton depot on 13 January, two months ahead of target. We anticipate having completed the manufacture of 12 trains by the end of this financial year. [TfL Commissioner’s report - February 2023]
12 trains completed by end of March 2023 means they are really moving, with 7 completed already. So they are not waiting for the original build of 4 to settle in and reveal problems before going on with the main build! That will be near a quarter of the build! Has the first train even left the depot in London yet?
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