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Post by superteacher on Jan 26, 2017 19:03:37 GMT
I have been down to Loughton station this morning off peak to see what's happening. 1. Several trains running through - I saw 3 in 10 minutes, in both directions. If they are running they should be in passenger service, no matter if irregular. 2. Buses appearing erratically at Stop A, inadequately labelled. ("Extra" does not help as a blind) No LU staff at the bus stops to help passengers. None in the ticket hall, with passengers going into the barber shop to ask advice. Probably too cold to expect any customer assistance. Not clear if Debden being served (one driver saying definitely it wasn't, as the Debden area was "gummed up"). 3. RRP buses taking unorthodox routes. One seen using Forest Rd/Earls Path in Loughton! Badly, badly done, LU! Intrigued about the trains you saw. Anybody have any information about it?
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Jan 26, 2017 20:27:53 GMT
I have been down to Loughton station this morning off peak to see what's happening. 1. Several trains running through - I saw 3 in 10 minutes, in both directions. If they are running they should be in passenger service, no matter if irregular. 2. Buses appearing erratically at Stop A, inadequately labelled. ("Extra" does not help as a blind) No LU staff at the bus stops to help passengers. None in the ticket hall, with passengers going into the barber shop to ask advice. Probably too cold to expect any customer assistance. Not clear if Debden being served (one driver saying definitely it wasn't, as the Debden area was "gummed up"). 3. RRP buses taking unorthodox routes. One seen using Forest Rd/Earls Path in Loughton! Badly, badly done, LU! Intrigued about the trains you saw. Anybody have any information about it? Just a thought, these trains were being run empty to get stock to east end depots or sidings so that a good service can start up tomorrow , if you are short of trains in the east you move them out of service .
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Post by superteacher on Jan 26, 2017 21:56:22 GMT
Intrigued about the trains you saw. Anybody have any information about it? Just a thought, these trains were being run empty to get stock to east end depots or sidings so that a good service can start up tomorrow , if you are short of trains in the east you move them out of service . So does that imply that some east end drivers were working today?
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Post by stapler on Jan 26, 2017 21:58:24 GMT
Presumably some were, unless it was retraining for the managers...
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
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Post by hobbayne on Jan 26, 2017 22:50:46 GMT
I believe there where a few trains running empty at the east of the line spraying de icing fluid on the tracks. With nothing on the branch this evening and a heavy frost predicted tonight - I believe these were the trains that were spotted.
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Post by stapler on Jan 27, 2017 8:21:29 GMT
Wouldn't have been necessary to de-ice at 11 am?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 27, 2017 15:14:17 GMT
I've just watched the Trackernet Replayer for 11:00-12:00 yesterday, there was a stock move from Hainault to Loughton via Woodford and back again.
T601 arrived at Loughton 11:24, went into the sidings 11:30, then another train came out of the sidings as T601 at 11:40 and left Loughton 11:49.
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Post by stapler on Jan 27, 2017 22:02:15 GMT
That's right - just enough time for me to have my haircut!
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Jan 28, 2017 5:57:27 GMT
Another report from Aux's blog about the strike on the East End of the Central Line on Thursday !
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Post by deansullivan on Jan 28, 2017 9:03:15 GMT
I have been down to Loughton station this morning off peak to see what's happening. 1. Several trains running through - I saw 3 in 10 minutes, in both directions. If they are running they should be in passenger service, no matter if irregular. 2. Buses appearing erratically at Stop A, inadequately labelled. ("Extra" does not help as a blind) No LU staff at the bus stops to help passengers. None in the ticket hall, with passengers going into the barber shop to ask advice. Probably too cold to expect any customer assistance. Not clear if Debden being served (one driver saying definitely it wasn't, as the Debden area was "gummed up"). 3. RRP buses taking unorthodox routes. One seen using Forest Rd/Earls Path in Loughton! Badly, badly done, LU! If I may pick up on a comment re Staplers observations on the buses provided on the East-end of the Central Line on Thursday. The service was organised and procured by London Buses (LB) at relatively short notice. This was not a London Underground service. The intention was to provide additional assistance for the local bus network which would have been under pressure at that time and to help divert customers to alternative lines & bus routes where London Buses felt capacity existed. Given the sensitivities of the subject, I am at pains to point out it was not a railway replacement bus service but an additional bus service operating alongside local buses. As a result we are not permitted to show the traditional RRS blinds. The EXTRA labels were provided by LB and we made A4 size destination labels for the front windows. Given the lack of resources it would have been foolhardy to try to replace the Central lines capacity on a like for like basis. The section between Stratford and Liverpool Street is amongst the busiest on the network, and by Leytonstone W/B trains are already arriving full to capacity. There are clearly insufficient buses available to handle this level of demand and there’s insufficient space at termini’s to support the number of vehicles required. Regarding the schedule, we surveyed the route the day prior using a bus and some of the volunteer drivers that had agreed to assist on Thursday. The outcome was a comfortable peak running time of 45mins from Epping to Chingford. Some additional time was added for safety. Unfortunately on the day this increased to 1h45m at its peak which caused the service to gap. Several traffic hotspots including the junction by Bancrofts School in Woodford added significant additional time to the journey. As a result ‘on the fly’ we seeked out alternatives using drivers knowledgeable with the area. Hence Earls Path which is perfectly suitable in a single decker bus. Although I don’t think that was perpetuated. Clearly some lessons have been learned and we will feed this back to London Buses. I accept it may not have been perfect – but it delivered additional capacity when it was needed within the limited resource available.
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Post by stapler on Jan 28, 2017 22:33:37 GMT
Thank you, deansullivan. That explains a lot, and I had no idea you were using volunteers to drive them! I thought it was a railway replacement service; wasn't that what the signs on the lampposts said? Extra is a bit daft since the only routes that run Chingford to Epping are the 397 Chingford-Debden and the 418 Loughton-Harlow, and as far as I know the "extras" were not running the same route nor stopping at all stops, nor carrying route numbers! Whilst I agree Earls Path is suitable for a s/d replacement, Forest Rd, which leads to it, really isn't, although a DOT C class road, it is really heavily parked. Manor Rd is generally the road of choice if Woodford Wells is snagged. The roadworks at Debden must have been the reason Debden was being omitted on some journeys. As you say, this was a noble effort to help people out, but perhaps LU and LB needed a bit more organisation, especially in briefing/marshalling their station staff!
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Post by John Tuthill on Jan 28, 2017 22:38:12 GMT
Thank you, deansullivan. That explains a lot, and I had no idea you were using volunteers to drive them! I thought it was a railway replacement service; wasn't that what the signs on the lampposts said? Extra is a bit daft since the only routes that run Chingford to Epping are the 397 Chingford-Debden and the 418 Loughton-Harlow, and as far as I know the "extras" were not running the same route nor stopping at all stops, nor carrying route numbers! Whilst I agree Earls Path is suitable for a s/d replacement, Forest Rd, which leads to it, really isn't, although a DOT C class road, it is really heavily parked. Manor Rd is generally the road of choice if Woodford Wells is snagged. The roadworks at Debden must have been the reason Debden was being omitted on some journeys. As you say, this was a noble effort to help people out, but perhaps LU and LB needed a bit more organisation, especially in briefing/marshalling their station staff!
Or let Dean Sullivan sort it!
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 29, 2017 9:30:29 GMT
As you say, this was a noble effort to help people out, but perhaps LU and LB needed a bit more organisation, especially in briefing/marshalling their station staff! What station staff? Unless I'm mistaken under Fit for the Future the only staff rostered at Loughton are five Customer Service Supervisors (Grade 2), I don't know what the duties are but that's one, maybe two staff on duty at Loughton at any one time although I suspect that the second CSS might have to cover meal breaks at Epping, Theydon Bois, Debden and Buckhurst Hill. With the staffing shortage its quite possible that Loughton could be left unstaffed
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 29, 2017 17:00:03 GMT
As you say, this was a noble effort to help people out, but perhaps LU and LB needed a bit more organisation, especially in briefing/marshalling their station staff! What station staff? Unless I'm mistaken under Fit for the Future the only staff rostered at Loughton are five Customer Service Supervisors (Grade 2), I don't know what the duties are but that's one, maybe two staff on duty at Loughton at any one time although I suspect that the second CSS might have to cover meal breaks at Epping, Theydon Bois, Debden and Buckhurst Hill. With the staffing shortage its quite possible that Loughton could be left unstaffed Loughton and Epping have one supervisor who works from 0700-1500. Monday to Friday they also have a part time Supervisior working 0630-1030, but due to shortages these part time duties were not covered. Reading the Loughton logbook, posters regardling the extra bus services were put up approx 0745.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 30, 2017 7:35:45 GMT
Thanks, TB. So basically while they're supposed to have two CSSs on duty there is in effect just one CSS to cover the ticket hall during the morning peak and monitor the CCTV from the office at other times.
I suppose on strike day there's no need to monitor the CCTV so they'd be trying to help passengers at the front of the station but if they book on at 07:00 then I guess they'd be on their meal break around 11:00 which might explains why there was no one around when Stapler was there.
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Post by stapler on Jan 30, 2017 7:51:25 GMT
Incidentally, further to deansullivan's point about whether this was a railway replacement service, I checked the direction markers at the top of Old Station Rd yesterday (which are still there)--they clearly state Rail replacement buses. So there was evidently some doubt on that point. Also, I think - but can't be sure - the whiteboard notice referred to replacement buses. It was very unclear as to whether tickets had to be bought from the machines, which were still accessible; but if these buses were "extras" to route 418/397,and not rail replacements as dean says, presumably tickets had to be bought on the bus. In fact route 418 does not accept oyster/contactless, so that might have been a bit of a problem. Or quite possibly, passengers were just waved through (I heard a discussion on this but not its outcome) By the way, the leaving of the direction markers in place --does that imply another strike is on its way?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 30, 2017 9:47:17 GMT
More likely it implies that no one can be bothered to take them down again
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Jan 30, 2017 9:52:14 GMT
Yes another all lines station staff strike is on the cards, Sunday 5 Feb from 18:00 until 09:59 Monday 6 Feb, Tuesday 7 Feb from 10:00 until 00:59 Wednesday 8 Feb.
If this goes ahead this will effect services all day Monday and Tuesday. I have no information about the Drivers dispute on the Central Line if this may be ongoing .
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 30, 2017 15:10:50 GMT
Yes another all lines station staff strike is on the cards, Sunday 5 Feb from 18:00 until 09:59 Monday 6 Feb, Tuesday 7 Feb from 10:00 until 00:59 Wednesday 8 Feb. If this goes ahead this will effect services all day Monday and Tuesday. I have no information about the Drivers dispute on the Central Line if this may be ongoing . ASLEF announced they'd be balloting their Central Line East members 12 days ago, closing date 13 February so expect the result to be announced shortly after that. RMT are still in dispute but haven't announced another strike day yet. Today all the Leytonstone spares are out on the road, there's no dead late spare and we've got two Hainault spares covering Leytonstone duties. And we've got too many drivers here according to management.......
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Jan 30, 2017 23:26:35 GMT
Yes another all lines station staff strike is on the cards, Sunday 5 Feb from 18:00 until 09:59 Monday 6 Feb, Tuesday 7 Feb from 10:00 until 00:59 Wednesday 8 Feb. If this goes ahead this will effect services all day Monday and Tuesday. I have no information about the Drivers dispute on the Central Line if this may be ongoing . ASLEF announced they'd be balloting their Central Line East members 12 days ago, closing date 13 February so expect the result to be announced shortly after that. RMT are still in dispute but haven't announced another strike day yet. Today all the Leytonstone spares are out on the road, there's no dead late spare and we've got two Hainault spares covering Leytonstone duties. And we've got too many drivers here according to management....... TSSA have suspended next weeks for its Station Staff membership , again LUL are try to divide staff on Stations and Trains tactics well honed in past disputes .
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Post by jimini on Jan 30, 2017 23:32:36 GMT
Mildly connected (calm down, moderators): I think that refunds are out of the question for industrial action, but what about if your alternative route takes you via a more circuitous route in order to get to your destination?
Example: last week I caught a bus to Chingford (extra fare), then caught the train from Chingford to Liverpool Street, which involved a trip via zone 5 (I live in zone 4). On the way home I caught the Victoria line to Blackhorse Road, then a bus back to South Woodford from there. So in total my extra incurred costs were 2x bus journeys plus the Z5-Z1 journey differential to Liverpool Street.
Summary:
Normal journey: 2x Zone 1-4 singles @ £3.90 = £7.80
Strike journey: 2x bus journey @ £1.50 = £3.00 + £4.70 Z5-1 journey (from Chingford) + Z1-4 journey @ £3.90 = £11.60.
I'm guessing there's no chance of me seeing the £3.80 difference? It's not so much about the money but more about the principle, especially considering how much longer the journey took. I opted to walk from Liverpool Street to London Bridge in the morning, so potentially it could have cost me a further £1.50 bus fare on top of this.
Thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 23:39:45 GMT
I'm certain I read/heard it explicitly stated that they would not be liable for any extra cost incurred due to having to make more expensive journeys, which I thought was a bit wrong too.
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Post by stapler on Jan 31, 2017 8:16:18 GMT
Wouldn't your Oyster have capped at £11.20?
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Post by countryman on Jan 31, 2017 9:09:44 GMT
Wouldn't your Oyster have capped at £11.20? Would it do that if the first journey had been in the morning peak?
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Post by bassmike on Jan 31, 2017 11:29:17 GMT
In my case it's not the principle of the thing--it's the money. (joke)
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 31, 2017 12:00:17 GMT
if you normally use a Travelcard the bus journeys anywhere in London are free.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 31, 2017 12:11:30 GMT
if you normally use a Travelcard the bus journeys anywhere in London are free. I seem to recall reading in a TfL document somewhere that these days more people use PAYG instead of Travelcards
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Post by jimini on Jan 31, 2017 13:46:57 GMT
if you normally use a Travelcard the bus journeys anywhere in London are free. I seem to recall reading in a TfL document somewhere that these days more people use PAYG instead of Travelcards I certainly do; a mixture of working abroad and cycling a couple of days a week means that it's usually the best option for me. Even if not - my other half does have a monthly travelcard so it cost her a couple of extra bob too because of the detour to zone 5 on the way in.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 31, 2017 20:29:25 GMT
Wouldn't your Oyster have capped at £11.20? Would it do that if the first journey had been in the morning peak? The cap for Zones 1-5 is £11.20, regardless of peak or off peak.
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Post by jimini on Jan 31, 2017 21:02:43 GMT
Would it do that if the first journey had been in the morning peak? The cap for Zones 1-5 is £11.20, regardless of peak or off peak. Ok, so £3.40 then My original point still stands, regardless!
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