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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 19:19:06 GMT
Hi All, I was studying the WTT the other day and had some interesting questions:
Why is the service pattern Ealing Bdy to Hainault (via Newbury Pk) and also Epping to West ruislip. Why dont they mix up the two- e.g. epping to ealing?
I sometimes travel at peak hours from Shepherds bush Eastbound. Is there any way of knowing when a train which started at White City will appear? Also on this journey would an EX ealing bdy train or and EX West Ruislip be quieter?
Finally out of interest which is the busiest times on the central line and between which stations - from your experiences?
thanks
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Post by superteacher on Dec 6, 2016 19:27:04 GMT
Hi All, I was studying the WTT the other day and had some interesting questions: Why is the service pattern Ealing Bdy to Hainault (via Newbury Pk) and also Epping to West ruislip. Why dont they mix up the two- e.g. epping to ealing? I sometimes travel at peak hours from Shepherds bush Eastbound. Is there any way of knowing when a train which started at White City will appear? Also on this journey would an EX ealing bdy train or and EX West Ruislip be quieter? Finally out of interest which is the busiest times on the central line and between which stations - from your experiences? thanks Welcome to the forum! I think the reason that the service operates WER - EPP and EAB - HAIN is so that there is a depot on each route, which makes it easier to change over trains if there is a defect. In terms of finding out when a train has started from White City, the working timetable will give you the information. Although the West Ruislip branch is longer, Ealing Broadway is the busiest station west of Shepherd's Bush, so I'm not sure which branch woild have the busier trains. In terms of the busiest part of the line, probably morning peak westbound from Bethnal Green to Bank. |
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Post by stapler on Dec 6, 2016 19:34:32 GMT
ST, given that Stratford is now such an interchange magnet, IME, Leyton to Stratford morning peak WB is the worst overcrowded....
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 6, 2016 19:41:22 GMT
Hi All, I was studying the WTT the other day and had some interesting questions: Why is the service pattern Ealing Bdy to Hainault (via Newbury Pk) and also Epping to West ruislip. Why dont they mix up the two- e.g. epping to ealing? I sometimes travel at peak hours from Shepherds bush Eastbound. Is there any way of knowing when a train which started at White City will appear? Also on this journey would an EX ealing bdy train or and EX West Ruislip be quieter? Finally out of interest which is the busiest times on the central line and between which stations - from your experiences? thanks I'd think that the number of passengers already on the train would be a good indicator?  |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 6, 2016 20:06:19 GMT
ST, given that Stratford is now such an interchange magnet, IME, Leyton to Stratford morning peak WB is the worst overcrowded.... You may have a point. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that Leyton to Stratford would be busier, merely that there is greater levels of interchange at Stratford. |
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Post by stapler on Dec 6, 2016 21:50:07 GMT
Yes, although it seems to me there is a nett loss at Stratford going WB. On the other hand, more seem to get on at Bethnal Green than previously - has any Bethnal Greener EVER got a seat recently in the morning peak?
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Post by drainrat on Dec 6, 2016 22:16:11 GMT
Hi All, I was studying the WTT the other day and had some interesting questions: Why is the service pattern Ealing Bdy to Hainault (via Newbury Pk) and also Epping to West ruislip. Why dont they mix up the two- e.g. epping to ealing? I sometimes travel at peak hours from Shepherds bush Eastbound. Is there any way of knowing when a train which started at White City will appear? Also on this journey would an EX ealing bdy train or and EX West Ruislip be quieter? Finally out of interest which is the busiest times on the central line and between which stations - from your experiences? thanks Throughout the day, there are several trains an hour that mix up from the west end e.g EAB- EPP & WER-HAI. I'd say there are many variables the service runs as it is, but main one is to make sure crews driving perameters are maintained and they end up at the same location for their next pick up. However, the current WTT has changed the running somewhat and so more duties require crews to travel from one location to another for next pick up. As for white city starters, they generally leave white city at approx. 17 min intervals to Hai, so if you every 3rd hai train will be from white city. EAB trains usually already packed leaving, in morning peak the driver even has to push through passengers to get to the cab. Though I'd say the trains from WER are loaded just as much by the time they reach Shepherd's Bush. As for busiest, between les-beg I'd say, we start unloading at Liverpool Street. hope this helps. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 7, 2016 13:07:29 GMT
Yes, although it seems to me there is a nett loss at Stratford going WB. On the other hand, more seem to get on at Bethnal Green than previously - has any Bethnal Greener EVER got a seat recently in the morning peak? I think it's more a case of how many trains they have to let go before they can actually get on one! |
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Post by crusty54 on Dec 7, 2016 13:45:41 GMT
Yes, although it seems to me there is a nett loss at Stratford going WB. On the other hand, more seem to get on at Bethnal Green than previously - has any Bethnal Greener EVER got a seat recently in the morning peak? I think it's more a case of how many trains they have to let go before they can actually get on one! The Stratford loadings w/b depend on whether a TfL Rail train arrives at the adjacent platform at the same time. |
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Post by drainrat on Dec 7, 2016 13:48:28 GMT
and a lot only want to use the train as a bridge to the opposite platform ;-)
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Post by stapler on Dec 7, 2016 14:16:40 GMT
Not in rush hour; you'd likely end up at Mile End!
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Post by sawb on Dec 7, 2016 21:39:10 GMT
Oh no, even at rush hour. They just shove anyone in the way out the way, something I've witnessed or been unfortunate to experience on several occasions.
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Post by drainrat on Dec 7, 2016 23:07:40 GMT
The doors open/close procedure was supposed to prevent this, but it hasn't
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Post by stapler on Dec 8, 2016 9:04:11 GMT
They do have an excuse, however, because at a usage of 100m + pa, the platform and stairs at Stratford are well over capacity and getting quite dangerous...
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Post by drainrat on Dec 8, 2016 11:47:45 GMT
Maybe, but I'd still say it's safer to go down the stairs to cross, and actually quicker too rather than wait for a train just to cross over. In the initial meetings for the SRCC for the south side platform on the wb, operations side didn't want to touch it with a barge pole, though have to say, most of the outcomes we put up haven't come to fruition, programmes and planning just said 'it's happening, all you guys need to figure out is safe procedures', so we did. One of the first accepted procedures was to open and close doors on Jubilee side before opening for the mainline, as it was perceived the crossovers would come from the mainline. However, there's a saying 'the service is king' and it would've meant an increased dwell time during peak which would lead to problems at other locations.
As it is, Im sure there's been no logged incidents on database of people injured from the bridging, but if TfL really thought it an issue, they'd employ Tokyo style passenger pushers.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 8, 2016 12:08:03 GMT
In terms of time, my experience at Canary Wharf is that people will look at how far away the train is and either wait for it or go down and around depending on how the balance between speed and convenience works out given their current priorities.
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Post by drainrat on Dec 8, 2016 17:16:11 GMT
In terms of time, my experience at Canary Wharf is that people will look at how far away the train is and either wait for it or go down and around depending on how the balance between speed and convenience works out given their current priorities. The issue at Stratford wb is that a lot of people on the TfL rail side don't even want the Central line |
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Post by notverydeep on Dec 9, 2016 10:59:44 GMT
Hi All, I was studying the WTT the other day and had some interesting questions: Finally out of interest which is the busiest times on the central line and between which stations - from your experiences? thanks This information is available to the public. It comes from the 'Rolling Origin and Destination Survey' (RODS) and is an annual dataset, published about a year after the year to which it refers. It is a set of spreadsheets and these can be found on TfL Open Data (but you do need to register). The spreadsheet you need to answer this question is called smoothed_line_loads_2015.xls. This shows that the busiest 15 minute load is between 08:30 and 08:45 between Bethnal Green to Liverpool Street, which in 2015 had 8056 passengers on the trains between the two. This link used to be the busiest 15 minutes anywhere on the Underground according to this data for earlier years, however the 34 tph Victoria line service now beats it into second place, with 8105 passengers between Euston and Warren Street SB (at the same times). The Central line WB AM peak is much busier than the EB, the busiest 15 minute load is between Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road is at the same time, but 'only' 5189 passengers. From Shepherd's Bush Central EB in the morning, 3955 passengers are aboard trains between 08:15 and 08:30 and 3945 between 08:30 and 08:45. If you look at the Working Timetable, also available online at WTT69, you can see how many trains pass during these times and calculate the 'average' train load. |
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Post by towerman on Dec 9, 2016 11:30:20 GMT
Hi All, I was studying the WTT the other day and had some interesting questions: Why is the service pattern Ealing Bdy to Hainault (via Newbury Pk) and also Epping to West ruislip. Why dont they mix up the two- e.g. epping to ealing? I sometimes travel at peak hours from Shepherds bush Eastbound. Is there any way of knowing when a train which started at White City will appear? Also on this journey would an EX ealing bdy train or and EX West Ruislip be quieter? Finally out of interest which is the busiest times on the central line and between which stations - from your experiences? thanks Welcome to the forum! I think the reason that the service operates WER - EPP and EAB - HAIN is so that there is a depot on each route, which makes it easier to change over trains if there is a defect. In terms of finding out when a train has started from White City, the working timetable will give you the information. Although the West Ruislip branch is longer, Ealing Broadway is the busiest station west of Shepherd's Bush, so I'm not sure which branch woild have the busier trains. In terms of the busiest part of the line, probably morning peak westbound from Bethnal Green to Bank. At one time they also stabled one train at Loughton between the peaks for changeover purposes.Was train 130 AM Hain-Eal-Lou stable,PM Lou-Eal-Hain stable. |
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Post by drainrat on Dec 9, 2016 11:32:42 GMT
Welcome to the forum! I think the reason that the service operates WER - EPP and EAB - HAIN is so that there is a depot on each route, which makes it easier to change over trains if there is a defect. In terms of finding out when a train has started from White City, the working timetable will give you the information. Although the West Ruislip branch is longer, Ealing Broadway is the busiest station west of Shepherd's Bush, so I'm not sure which branch woild have the busier trains. In terms of the busiest part of the line, probably morning peak westbound from Bethnal Green to Bank. At one time they also stabled one train at Loughton between the peaks for changeover purposes.Was train 130 AM Hain-Eal-Lou stable,PM Lou-Eal-Hain stable.
415 duty, my favourite duty!
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Post by drainrat on Dec 9, 2016 13:44:08 GMT
Hi All, I was studying the WTT the other day and had some interesting questions: Finally out of interest which is the busiest times on the central line and between which stations - from your experiences? thanks This information is available to the public. It comes from the 'Rolling Origin and Destination Survey' (RODS) and is an annual dataset, published about a year after the year to which it refers. It is a set of spreadsheets and these can be found on TfL Open Data (but you do need to register). The spreadsheet you need to answer this question is called smoothed_line_loads_2015.xls. This shows that the busiest 15 minute load is between 08:30 and 08:45 between Bethnal Green to Liverpool Street, which in 2015 had 8056 passengers on the trains between the two. This link used to be the busiest 15 minutes anywhere on the Underground according to this data for earlier years, however the 34 tph Victoria line service now beats it into second place, with 8105 passengers between Euston and Warren Street SB (at the same times). The Central line WB AM peak is much busier than the EB, the busiest 15 minute load is between Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road is at the same time, but 'only' 5189 passengers. From Shepherd's Bush Central EB in the morning, 3955 passengers are aboard trains between 08:15 and 08:30 and 3945 between 08:30 and 08:45. If you look at the Working Timetable, also available online at WTT69, you can see how many trains pass during these times and calculate the 'average' train load.
Well, the figures don't lie. I would say the figures are relative to the train length. I assume other factors would be the tapping in/out of oyster too, as opposed to the actual load weigh the train measures.
Busiest per platform and carriage, I would argue that Waterloo-Bank am peak and vice versa pm peak on the W&C line is hands down busier than Bethnal green-Liverpool st wb. Station control measures are put in place almost every morning and evening to control the flow of passengers. If you are a passenger arriving at the back of the queues to get on at Waterloo in the morning, it could be 6-7 trains passing before you are able to get on the platform. One mitigating factor at Waterloo is that every train coming in is empty, so loading up isn't necessarily to long when compared with 2-way traffic elsewhere. As a Leytonstone driver who observes the platforms at both BEG-LIV and wat-bank, Bethnal green doesn't even come close to Waterloo on the pandemonium scale!
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Post by notverydeep on Dec 9, 2016 14:43:09 GMT
Yes, the data shows 2820 passengers from Waterloo to Bank between 08:30 and 08:45 across 5.5 trains (11 trains in 30 minutes) an average of 513 per 4 car train or 128 per car. In the same period on the Central, the 8056 Bethnal Green to Liverpool Street passengers are spread across 8 trains (1007 per train), each with 8 cars or 126 per car. Bethnal Green is of course merely the last station of many where passengers are gradually added to make the total, whereas of course at Waterloo it is all at once.
By comparison, the 8105 Victoria line Euston to Warren Street passengers are again spread across 8.5 trains (there are 17 trans per 30 minutes), which works out at 954 per train or 119 per car.
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Post by drainrat on Dec 9, 2016 14:52:07 GMT
So, busy being relative, the W&C line peak services are the busiest if the criteria is passengers per car
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Post by Chris M on Dec 9, 2016 14:53:21 GMT
Another contender for busiest platform must be the eastbound Central/TfL island at Stratford in the PM peak.
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Post by drainrat on Dec 9, 2016 15:14:22 GMT
Especially when they run the Southend trains from platform 8 too, but still nowhere near Waterloo W&C am or Bank W&C pm
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Dec 9, 2016 16:34:52 GMT
Back in the days before an all day rush hour most lines ran short trip sevices between peaks,evenings & weekends.Central Liv St-W City/M Arch,Northern GG-Kenn,Jubilee CX-W Hampstead/W Grn/W Pk,Picc Act Twn-W Grn & Victoria Brix-S/S-Vic-K/X then back to Brix.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 17:31:47 GMT
Hi all,
Thanks for your answers. Im interested to know about the service changes when there is disruption. Do they ever change the branch, or generally go for early termination e.g. epping now becomes Woodford, debden etc.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 10, 2016 18:52:45 GMT
Hi all, Thanks for your answers. Im interested to know about the service changes when there is disruption. Do they ever change the branch, or generally go for early termination e.g. epping now becomes Woodford, debden etc. Yes, all of the above is possible and does happen. |
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Post by drainrat on Dec 10, 2016 21:21:48 GMT
Hi all, Thanks for your answers. Im interested to know about the service changes when there is disruption. Do they ever change the branch, or generally go for early termination e.g. epping now becomes Woodford, debden etc. An emergency timetable generally follows: Epping-Leytonstone Woodford/Hainault (round loop)-Ealing broadway West Ruislip-White city they change the train numbers too, and any drivers at the depot will be utilised accordingly I.e become spare |
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Post by stapler on Dec 11, 2016 16:18:18 GMT
On the line today, very busy (as usual!)
The normal service seemed to be suffering gaps up the main line (Epping) with too much going round the loop (Hainault and N Park).
What length of gap has to occur before the line controller even thinks of diverting a Hainault straight up?
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