pitdiver
No longer gainfully employed
Posts: 439
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Post by pitdiver on Sept 14, 2016 12:16:02 GMT
As a former Met Man I have little knowledge of the Central Line. So out of curiosity I have just watched a video of the above branch. Can anybody give me some information about it eg. What was the journey time, end to end, how many passengers would use it, what were the operating hours etc.
Thank you
Rob H
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Post by John Tuthill on Sept 14, 2016 13:57:37 GMT
As a former Met Man I have little knowledge of the Central Line. So out of curiosity I have just watched a video of the above branch. Can anybody give me some information about it eg. What was the journey time, end to end, how many passengers would use it, what were the operating hours etc. Thank you Rob H Check out the 'Disused Stations' web page, gives a good history. Click on the individual stations for more information |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Sept 14, 2016 14:05:02 GMT
As a former Met Man I have little knowledge of the Central Line. So out of curiosity I have just watched a video of the above branch. Can anybody give me some information about it eg. What was the journey time, end to end, how many passengers would use it, what were the operating hours etc. Thank you Rob H If I recall correctly Rob it was around a quarter of an hour from Epping to Ongar give or take a couple of minutes. There weren't many people on it, even in peaks (Blake Hall famously only had six passengers per day before it got closed in 1981). From what I can gather maybe 100 passengers per day was about average along the line. When I used it, it was operated by a four-car 1962TS that usually started from Platform 1 at Epping, Platform 2 being used for regular eight car city bound trains, although I occasionally caught this four-car train from Woodford direct to Ongar (leaving at around 3.30pm in the afternoon from Woodford). In later years they employed the old 3 car 1960TS that previously worked the Hainault/Woodford shuttle services. It had a 38TS trailer car in the middle and the whole unit was painted in a red and cream heritage style livery. I only ever used this once (again starting at Woodford) for old times sake as by then my reasons for visiting Ongar had long gone although I've subsequently been on the EOR with the grandson at Halloween!  Edit: I've found this timetable which shows 13 minutes Ongar to Epping so I wasn't too far out with the old memory banks! I won't embed it here as I'm unsure of Copyright but the URL is: LT Central Line Staff TT |
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Post by stapler on Sept 14, 2016 15:37:01 GMT
LT tried to run down Epping-Ongar after Norman Fowler turned down closure in 1980 (but allowed Blake Hall to go). Removal of the loop at N Weald meant one engine in steam (so to speak) and the max frequency 40 mins; service reduced to peaks only. Epping Forest DC financed an off-peak service but although that was moderately successful, they couldn't continue the spend. They protected the line's alignment in their Local Plan, but unfortunately not the extensive yard at Ongar.
Whilst a decent bus service to Ongar was maintained by reputable operators, local commuters could cope, but in recent years various fly by night operators have had a go
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 19, 2016 21:29:57 GMT
LT tried to run down Epping-Ongar after Norman Fowler turned down closure in 1980 (but allowed Blake Hall to go). Removal of the loop at N Weald meant one engine in steam (so to speak) and the max frequency 40 mins; service reduced to peaks only. Epping Forest DC financed an off-peak service but although that was moderately successful, they couldn't continue the spend. They protected the line's alignment in their Local Plan, but unfortunately not the extensive yard at Ongar. Whilst a decent bus service to Ongar was maintained by reputable operators, local commuters could cope, but in recent years various fly by night operators have had a go Much of the yard was subsequently turned into housing by the company that bought the line after closure promising to run regular trains on it and failing to do so. |
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Post by stafford on Dec 6, 2016 16:05:06 GMT
I wonder what happened to the now missing power rails?
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286 
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 6, 2016 18:31:45 GMT
I wonder what happened to the now missing power rails? They are probably used to trim the beards of many a hipster in Shoreditch. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 6, 2016 19:36:22 GMT
The North Weald passing loop was decommissioned in 1976, so the run down began some time before the closure request of 1980.
The irony is that now, the line would be far better used.
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Post by stapler on Dec 6, 2016 21:53:05 GMT
ST is quite right, even before the infamous Epping Forest District Local Plan dumps a thousand (?) extra dwellings on Ongar and N Weald
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Post by humbug on Dec 7, 2016 13:00:47 GMT
I wonder what happened to the now missing power rails? Dunno, but the pots lasted until Spring this year - I spent a happy couple of afternoons doing PW work with a team of volunteers lifting them.
Some dated back to the mid or late '50s, I think.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 7, 2016 21:13:06 GMT
I wonder what happened to the now missing power rails? Dunno, but the pots lasted until Spring this year - I spent a happy couple of afternoons doing PW work with a team of volunteers lifting them.
Some dated back to the mid or late '50s, I think.
Electrification was in 1957, so that would tie in with your comment. |
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Post by brigham on Dec 8, 2016 11:54:39 GMT
A lost opportunity, if ever there was.
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Post by crusty54 on Dec 8, 2016 17:08:33 GMT
A lost opportunity, if ever there was. not really when you see the full car park at Epping. Grange Hill and Ongar are still not large enough to sustain a regular service. The Epping-Ongar Railway is doing a fine job. |
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Post by stapler on Dec 8, 2016 17:21:17 GMT
Crusty, have you seen the Epping Forest Local Plan, which is proposing HUGE developments in North Weald, Ongar, and Epping?
The whole line will be solid if this channels thousands more passengers onto the line.
As to the car park, what can one expect when an annual all zones travelcard from Epping or Loughton is £2364, and to Liv St alone from say Audley End, from which sort of area many of the car park users come, £4400.
Forgive the rant, it's my thousandth post!
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Post by peterc on Dec 8, 2016 18:21:33 GMT
There is probably an arguement for re-opening as far as North Weald in the event of a major development but I can't see TfL doing it unless somebody else comes up with the money.
From what I read here it sounds as if the placing of Epping in zone 6 is distorting travel patterns and it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to be in 7 or even 8 in my view.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Dec 8, 2016 19:44:12 GMT
Many (in fact very many) years ago when the M11 was only a road-crayonistas wet dream, there was a whim of an idea for a North Weald / M11 Parkway station. I am going back two generations (55 or so years ago??) when my uncle worked for the "Ministry of Paper Generation and Shuffling It" and the M11 was only on paper and not on concrete.
Hindsight is the most accurate form of vision. My Uncle said Essex County Council were THE worst county council to deal with. He'd struggle up to Epping on the Central Line (changing at Holborn) from Boston Manor where he lived for a meeting with them, and they'd turn up late after being chauffeur driven from an office about 400 yards away from the hotel where the meeting was held.
He said then that as long as they had their chauffeur driven cars, Essex C.C. were not interested in other people's modes of transport. The closure of the Epping-Ongar link was inevitable, being all in Essex.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 8, 2016 20:41:25 GMT
Moving Epping out of zone 6 would go down like a sack of spuds!
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Post by brigham on Dec 9, 2016 8:58:43 GMT
It was the loss of the Electrification that was the 'lost opportunity'.
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Post by stapler on Dec 9, 2016 10:13:57 GMT
Rezoning Epping would indeed be like a sack of spuds, but in the canon of transport commonsense, it should be done. And Theydon Bois
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
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Post by hobbayne on Dec 12, 2016 20:23:25 GMT
It is well known that the branch was operated by steam trains prior to 1957. I was wondering where the steam loco's were kept overnight. Where they stabled in the platforms?
I guess they also needed coal so were were the coals stored??
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 12, 2016 21:23:32 GMT
It is well known that the branch was operated by steam trains prior to 1957. I was wondering where the steam loco's were kept overnight. Where they stabled in the platforms? I guess they also needed coal so were were the coals stored?? Check out the 'Epping Ongar Railway' web page. It shows a single track engine shed and water tower at Ongar. |
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
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Post by roythebus on Dec 12, 2016 21:24:45 GMT
It is well known that the branch was operated by steam trains prior to 1957. I was wondering where the steam loco's were kept overnight. Where they stabled in the platforms? I guess they also needed coal so were were the coals stored?? They worked back to Stratford with the empty stock. In latter years of BR operation there were early morning DMU "staff trains" direct to Liverpool Street via the junction at Leytonstone onto the "proper" BR track. There's a thread about this on the Facebook Metropolitan Line group at the moment regarding freight on the Underground. Remember there was BR freight to several places until late 1968 usually hauled by Brush type 2 diesels (now class 30/31). Last time I rode on the Epping-Ongar line it was standard stock!! |
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 12, 2016 21:25:54 GMT
It is well known that the branch was operated by steam trains prior to 1957. I was wondering where the steam loco's were kept overnight. Where they stabled in the platforms? I guess they also needed coal so were were the coals stored?? Check out the 'Epping Ongar Railway' web page. It shows a single track engine shed and water tower at Ongar. There was a much larger yard at Ongar as well; much of it was later sold off for housing. |
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Dec 12, 2016 22:01:18 GMT
It is well known that the branch was operated by steam trains prior to 1957. I was wondering where the steam loco's were kept overnight. Where they stabled in the platforms? I guess they also needed coal so were were the coals stored?? Epping had a 2 road engine shed with coal stage, it was a sub shed of Stratford. |
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Post by stapler on Dec 12, 2016 22:12:32 GMT
Roythebus, the junction was immediately south of Leyton Station, not Leytonstone. It was known as Leyton Station Junction, but of course existed only 1947-70. JohnT, the Ongar shed was out of use well before LT era: Epping was their base. Through excursion trains were worked by tripcock-fitted J15s; reversing in Liv St then via East London Junction to the SR (condensing J69s through the Thames Tunnel)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 1:19:31 GMT
Locos were for a good many years shedded at Loughton (the 'old' station where the supermarket now is) and went back to Stratford for repairs and maintenance. When I was at school Loughton had IIRC 3 C12 4-4-2T's for the Ongar branch. Freight and coal on the branch was delivered by a J15 (which had to run round its train) and on one occasion it overran and crashed into the buffers at Ongar.
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Post by stapler on Dec 13, 2016 7:15:30 GMT
Atlas, no shed at Loughton. What you are remembering is that a loco could often be seen shunting and pottering around at Loughton in the quite extensive yard, but there wasn't a shed there. Epping was the subshed of Stratford.
The ex-GN 4-42Ts were certainly used for a while, though the branch became the preserve of the 2-4-2Ts and J15s
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Post by stafford on Dec 19, 2016 18:54:50 GMT
I think I recall that the power supply was very poor, all fed from the Epping end. the start southbound from Ongar was very feeble. Also I believe there was a foot crossing somewhere in the forest section, which was unusual on an L.T. line. Further to add that there were some questions about the original sale of the line, involving a (former very famous actress) minister's decision taking. In passing, is there still a lower level siding immediately to the North of Epping's platforms?
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Post by stafford on Dec 19, 2016 19:03:35 GMT
And to add that during the period whilst the electrification ended at Woodford, pending further work, the Ongar train used to hang about in Woodford's Northbound (Down) platform, awaiting the arrival of the tube train from the West End. Its Westinghouse pump wheezing away, just outside my bedroom window as I then lived in the Stationmasters house. Also has anyone else heard the tale about the Vampire jet from North Weald RAF aerodrome adjacent, crashing onto the line in a slight cutting, and the branch steam set derailing as a result of the blast?. Further to add that I was on the very first LT train in public service from Woodford to Loughton, revoltingly early one morning, only passenger apart from quite a few engineering department staff. Loads of arcing.
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Post by stafford on Dec 19, 2016 19:07:30 GMT
As regards the M25 and related road schemes, the L.T. overbridge for the Woodford Hainault line was built long long before the M11, and one enjoyed the odd spectacle of central Line trains bridging over a few wandering cows. Come to think of it that line though seemingly ready was left un-used for a curiuously long time, with services meanwhile provided by a small Green line single decker bus.
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