Request for cover image for Tube fiction

I'm guessing you're wanting something similar to that used in the film Creep:

You could always use a photo of the 1972 stock on the Aldwych branch and then doctor it slightly to look more 73TS. I remember Chris W had it as his avatar a while ago.

Thank you very much phoenix, this is exactly the sort of image I had in mind! Would you mind if sending that my way? I'm assuming this is the same resolution as on your camera, and there isn't a higher-res version?

I've also tried to find the owner via Google Images but with no luck. If anyone on this forum knows who originally took this, please get in touch.


Argh, yes that's very similar to what I'm looking for, albeit without the bloody hand! I deliberately haven't watched Creep and have avoided it for fear of being influenced. But I am going for something along those lines.


Simon, thank you, I would love to see the image please. Drop me a line and I will send you my email address.


Thanks both, that is a terrific image considering it's a model. But I think I will need am image of a full-size train.

David, I've now placed versions online for you (all everyone else) to see.

These are small images - the full size versions are much larger.

Simon

Sadly not. All the time I was in and out of Wood Green Sidings, I could't be bothered to get out and photograph it because I didn't bring a clothes peg for my nose...

A colleague has a photo of a 73 taken in Down Street, though it's a phone picture and they're unlikely to say yes to commercial use:
www.flickr.com/photos/tubesnaps/25915918095/

If I had the time, I'd go down and get a photograph for you, but the nature of the shot means you're still probably going to have to ask TfL to use it.

Hi David, sorry for being a total knob and not replying but I haven't been on in the last few days.

Unfortunately the Wood Green picture I uploaded is the same quality as on my phone, and I don't have a better one available. If you want to use it just right click and save it, however I still have no idea on the source, so obviously I can't give or not give permission etc

No problem!

Thank you again, I have saved it from your post and based a cover around it. I'm going to add something to the acknowledgements asking that the original owner gets in touch so I can request permission. But now I am worried that any Tube train on a cover might be a copyright problem?

You're not a lawyer or anything, are you?!

Thank you, this is helpful, if only to know that ordinary photos of Tube trains are not a problem. I worry that this might be, since it's clearly taken by someone standing in the siding. 

I'm not sure if TfL would be too concerned about a story self-published on Amazon using such an image. But on the other hand, I'd rather play by the rules.

Thanks again for such detailed advice. It looks like the nature of the image I need might actually preclude its use.

Presumably, if such an image was used non-commercially, there would not be any problems? For example, if the story itself was free to download?

From reading everything that Jack has said, I really wouldn't say it would preclude its use, at least in the general case. You'd just have to go about it in the right way and through the official channels. This may require going through more hoops and the payment of more monies than it would be worth for you, but I'm sure you could definitely do it. Of course, permission can be denied at various points in the process, but let's face it, there are a lot of books about the Underground out there, with plenty of behind-the-scenes and otherwise visually interesting pictures illustrating them. It might be more trouble than it's worth for a self-published short taster story, it might not, and I have no experience working with the TfL press office, but why don't you just ask? It's possible that you might be able to get ahold of someone at TfL who would be happy to provide you with images. It's possible that you will not be getting these images for nothing, but you can enquire about what it might be possible to arrange.

Well it's your story, but I'm surprised you find the cover image a game changer on this matter. You could go for something else. A stylised, minimalist line drawing, perhaps. An illustration of tunnel with a pair of headlights in the distance. A drawing of a red signal. I mean you could knock these up yourself.

The only way I can think of that this could be an issue is with derivative images of copyrighted works. The standard LU livery is almost certainly not copyrightable - it's too simple, however some special liveries almost certainly are copyrightable and therefore copyrighted by default. If the copyrighted artwork is three dimensional and permanently in a public place (e.g. a statue in park) then freedom of panorama applies and you can photograph it without an issue. However if the artwork is only two dimensional, such as a train livery then UK law does not include any freedom of panorama for it and so, unless the use is de minimus* (i.e it's only a small, incidental part of the photograph and not the main subject) your photograph is a derivative work and any use must comply with fair dealing restrictions* (the UK's less generous equivalent of the US' fair use), which are complex and generally do not inlcude making money from the image. The copyright holder can of course waive some or all of their rights and allow you to use such photos with or without the payment of a fee and/or other terms.
*There is no single objective definition of what is and is not allowed.

This is a very brief summary of my incomplete understanding (IANAL) of what is a very complicated area of law that predates the internet age and is widely regarded as not fit for purpose in the modern world. It will though not be an issue in the case of the OP's desired image.


If, by chance, you were to be evacuated from a train into the running tunnel, and happened to engineer it so you were last off the train, and happened to have a camera with you, you could probably get the photograph you desire from a place you were authorised to be. The chance of this happening though is extremely small - I'm not aware of an occasion recently where a 1973 stock has had to be evacuated in the manner.

I've also found recreations of Charing Cross's platform tiling at The RAF Museum, Hendon and The Jackfield Tile Museum, Ironbridge