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Post by snoggle on Nov 1, 2016 11:10:00 GMT
I understood that a three week Christmas closure was due to occur but the first that I knew about the longer closure was when it was reported in the press the week before. Indeed, about a month ago I checked online so as to try and plan for Christmas, but nothing had been put up. It would appear that this was also a surprise to everybody else including the Council. There are still ongoing local issues with traffic getting stuck, especially where HGV drivers try to go down residential roads or dodgy uber minicabs following prat-navs try to go down a one way Street the other way. However, it is better than at first, presumably as motorists find other routes. Genuinely surprised that you couldn't find the closure info. I am sure I looked more than a month ago and found the list of phased closures at Upper Holloway. Perhaps there was a glitch on the TfL website?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 15, 2016 12:21:14 GMT
snoggle and others, do you know if any decent articles have come out lately with details about the current state of works? Either in the railway press or online? Transport committee maybe?
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Post by snoggle on Nov 15, 2016 16:00:14 GMT
snoggle and others, do you know if any decent articles have come out lately with details about the current state of works? Either in the railway press or online? Transport committee maybe? I only see bits and bobs. I haven't seen any articles or presentations about the works / progress. I'm not even sure the full scope of *all* of the works being done (including stuff at stations) are in the public domain. The twitter account for the works showed masts in place at Crouch Hill and also that they are doing track lowering on the curve round to the ECML at the moment. I had a short walk through the back doubles to see the new slab track and new ballasted track through Walthamstow recently. Workers were putting new cable troughs in place. Installation of masts is distinctly patchy at the moment. Some sections have them, others don't (Ferry Lane for example hasn't got them yet although there are some near the bridges over the Lea navigation). Lots of preparatory work ongoing for the bridge replacement there next month. A concrete pour is taking place at Blackhorse Rd today - I assume for foundations for the new accessibility facilities on the wb platform. Those for the eb platform were there the other week. I expect we'll see the modular ramps in due course once the structure has gone up for the lift tower. Not sure if the footbridge is being retained or not. As to questions well it looks like the User group are very fed up. They are firing questions at TfL via the Mayor every Mayor's Question Time via their usual Assembly Member contacts. There have been repeated questions about refunds for regular users displaced from the line and travelling via more expensive routes, questions about cuts to the rail replacement buses (Barking service has seen off peak reductions apparently). For MQT tomorrow we are back to questions about using displaced class 315 EMUs off the Shenfield line and also questions about why TfL won't respond to the user group!!! Finally they are asking whether the works are on time. Given we are only 2.5 months away from reopening that's probably a pertinent question given the patchy at best progress. I'd certainly expected a far more regimented approach to installing the masts for example. I am also wondering whether NR will even string any catenary wires before February - there's no need for electric haulage straight away and if the wires were hung but not energised they'd be stolen almost straight away so I can see NR deliberately holding back on that and only installing and tensioning the wires at the very last minute. That obviously brings risks of its own around later possessions etc but we know that not all of the work will be done by early Feb anyway. Quoted below are some of the questions for MQT tomorrow. Whether we get any answers next week remains to be seen. TfL are notoriously slow at answering "difficult" questions posed to the Mayor.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 20, 2016 16:54:46 GMT
The first bit of wire stringing on the GOBLIN that I've seen reported.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 21, 2016 7:44:38 GMT
Wires into Barking pfm.1 look complete now.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 1, 2016 16:24:00 GMT
Network Rail now saying works are 80% complete with catenary and wiring and connecting to the "Mains" the main remaining tasks for the project. I assume the Upper Holloway bridge replacement is considered a separate, although necessary, piece of work. There's a time lapse video showing various bits of track lowering works on the link below. I assume platform and other works are deemed separate by Network Rail as some of that is procured directly by TfL. www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/video-work-to-electrify-railway-between-gospel-oak-and-barking-80-complete
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Post by dazz285 on Dec 1, 2016 17:29:27 GMT
Don't forget the 2 bridges over the River Lea just past South Tottenham as well as, according to Network Rail, they started to be replaced from 26th November until 6th Jan 2017.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 18:55:44 GMT
I reckon 80% is about right overall. Can't really say any more other than to have faith in the GOBe project team. Work may *appear* sporadic but it is all very tightly coordinated between the various pieces of work that have to be done while sharing the same piece of the route.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 3, 2016 17:29:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 22:34:53 GMT
Bridge 32 over the Lea and the AFA works are separate from GOBe but obviously timed to make use of the blockade - not without some difficulty in the case of UB 32, as replacing the deck meant cutting off access for engineering trains and on-track plant.
There are two OLE bases to be squeezed in at the back of the Blackhorse Road platforms, adjacent to the stairs. The OLE foundations along Ferry Lane are concrete pads rather than the much preferred steel piles because the Vic line tunnels are running below.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 3, 2016 23:18:00 GMT
Bridge 32 over the Lea and the AFA works are separate from GOBe but obviously timed to make use of the blockade - not without some difficulty in the case of UB 32, as replacing the deck meant cutting off access for engineering trains and on-track plant. There are two OLE bases to be squeezed in at the back of the Blackhorse Road platforms, adjacent to the stairs. The OLE foundations along Ferry Lane are concrete pads rather than the much preferred steel piles because the Vic line tunnels are running below. When you say "separate" do you mean they are still NR works but within the "bridges and structures" work plan rather than electrification scope? I assume they are the last two bridges in that area to be attended to given others have been strengthened / refurbed / replaced. I know AFA is always separate - I've only been asking about the BHO works for years via Twitter. Took ages for anyone to admit they were actually going ahead. Thanks for the explanation about the concrete pouring. Can't see NR being popular if they'd rammed a pile or two through the Vic Line tunnels. Are the platform lengthening works happening within the blockade timescale or being done later in engineering hours? I know they are mostly (?) being procured separately by TfL. Will seem rather odd to reopen the route with promises of longer trains but without the platforms having been done in the blockade.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 0:04:12 GMT
The only civil/structural works in the GOBe scope are those directly required to achieve the electrification of the route. Generally the bridge works you see are all part of renewals and other works plans, apart from the parapet height extensions you might see springing up along the route. There happen to be some significant bridge replacements on the GOB route: the Lea Viaduct, River Lea Bridge 35, Palmerston Rd, Tottenham High Rd and Wightman Rd, all on GOB but not part of the electrification scope.
Platform lowering works such as at WQR have been required to match the track lowering needed to fit the OLE under the many low headroom bridges on the route. Platform extensions generally can be done in possessions so they are programmed to suit resource, but obviously they will be in place in time for the longer trains!
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 6, 2016 17:27:17 GMT
When are the new trains due to arrive?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 6, 2016 18:12:32 GMT
When are the new trains due to arrive? Early 2018, I understand. The wiring will be able to be used by electric freight trains in the meantime of course. (It is rare for infrastructure and rolling stock to both be ready simultaneously - I recall photos of the large fleet of CEP/BEP stock stored in Sussex waiting for the completion of the Kent Coast electrification). And SWT has the rolling stock to form 10-car trains, but will not be able to run all of them until after the big shutdown at Waterloo next August. Apparently it is not practical to run the Goblin with something else electric in the interim - there are not enough drivers familiar with both the route and any existing electric rolling stock that might be available, and the training overhead for such a short term measure is too high to be worth doing. This does mean that the 172s will be running under the wires for the best part of a year.
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Post by alpinejohn on Dec 6, 2016 19:03:36 GMT
The only civil/structural works in the GOBe scope are those directly required to achieve the electrification of the route. Generally the bridge works you see are all part of renewals and other works plans, apart from the parapet height extensions you might see springing up along the route. There happen to be some significant bridge replacements on the GOB route: the Lea Viaduct, River Lea Bridge 35, Palmerston Rd, Tottenham High Rd and Wightman Rd, all on GOB but not part of the electrification scope. Platform lowering works such as at WQR have been required to match the track lowering needed to fit the OLE under the many low headroom bridges on the route. Platform extensions generally can be done in possessions so they are programmed to suit resource, but obviously they will be in place in time for the longer trains! It is a very long time since I have personally used this line, but I certainly recall that many of the platforms on the line were quite long and had been shortened mostly with barriers to block off the unmaintained extra section. I guess current HSE considerations could mean that work to reinstate the closed off platform sections might need a line possession to protect the workforce especially when fitting new style platform edges, but hopefully this sort of work can be accommodated overnight before the new longer trains become available. However I really hope they are using this extended closure to sort out the two more problematic short platforms - South Tottenham and Harringey Green Lanes. To confirm my recollection I found a reasonably recent "drivers eye" video taken of the route on YouTube - Gospel Oak - Barking - Darren J which at 8.10 and 10.30 shows that extending these platforms could well be problematic if the line was operational. At Harringey Green Lanes it appears the earlier longer platforms have been removed, leaving just decapitated concrete stubs. As for South Tottenham I suspect the junctions before and after the already staggered platforms may make extending the current platforms problematic. Network Rail have had a fair bit of bad press recently, with delayed and over budget projects like the GWR Electrification. I hope their planners have done a better job here as I doubt GOBLIN users will be keen to suffer further closures to extend platforms on a line which has already been subject to an extended closure.
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Post by stapler on Dec 6, 2016 19:38:36 GMT
I saw a 6-car train of LMS stock (plus 2-6-4T) photographed at South Tottenham in 1960, so it should be possible. Also, 8-car trains hauled by a 4-4-0 were used on Southend excursions. Perhaps remodelling when they singled the S Tottenham chord was the reason for the trouble?
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Post by Chris M on Dec 6, 2016 19:41:56 GMT
I suspect that even building a platform from scratch, most of the work can be done while the service is running by the simple expedient of it being sufficiently far from the nearest running rail (2 metres?) and/or temporarily fenced off from it (this doesn't need to be a sturdy fence, just something to stop workers accidentally passing it I believe). The majority of remaining portion of the works will likely be able to be done in standard engineering hours and the little bit left will need only short (1-2 day) closures - and weekend closures will continue after the end of the blockade for other work anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 21:19:32 GMT
I will have to see what's happening about extending STO and HRY platforms, not my bag normally.
One of the biggest problems with GWEP is the plethora of direct buried cables that makes piling for OLE a nightmare. GOBe piling has been much easier, apart from the risk of hitting unexploded ordnance!
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Post by stapler on Dec 6, 2016 21:47:48 GMT
Most of the platform lengthening on GEML has been done with trains running.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 21:56:06 GMT
Yes I looked after some of them.
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Post by stapler on Dec 6, 2016 22:03:24 GMT
And so far as I can see, you've done a good job, Rachael. Much more workmanlike than some of the extensions on the Chingford Line done in 1959-60 (also with the trains running!)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 22:31:00 GMT
Thank you! We aim to please
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 6, 2016 22:39:32 GMT
The only civil/structural works in the GOBe scope are those directly required to achieve the electrification of the route. Generally the bridge works you see are all part of renewals and other works plans, apart from the parapet height extensions you might see springing up along the route. There happen to be some significant bridge replacements on the GOB route: the Lea Viaduct, River Lea Bridge 35, Palmerston Rd, Tottenham High Rd and Wightman Rd, all on GOB but not part of the electrification scope. Platform lowering works such as at WQR have been required to match the track lowering needed to fit the OLE under the many low headroom bridges on the route. Platform extensions generally can be done in possessions so they are programmed to suit resource, but obviously they will be in place in time for the longer trains! It is a very long time since I have personally used this line, but I certainly recall that many of the platforms on the line were quite long and had been shortened mostly with barriers to block off the unmaintained extra section. I guess current HSE considerations could mean that work to reinstate the closed off platform sections might need a line possession to protect the workforce especially when fitting new style platform edges, but hopefully this sort of work can be accommodated overnight before the new longer trains become available. However I really hope they are using this extended closure to sort out the two more problematic short platforms - South Tottenham and Harringey Green Lanes. To confirm my recollection I found a reasonably recent "drivers eye" video taken of the route on YouTube - Gospel Oak - Barking - Darren J which at 8.10 and 10.30 shows that extending these platforms could well be problematic if the line was operational. At Harringey Green Lanes it appears the earlier longer platforms have been removed, leaving just decapitated concrete stubs. As for South Tottenham I suspect the junctions before and after the already staggered platforms may make extending the current platforms problematic. Network Rail have had a fair bit of bad press recently, with delayed and over budget projects like the GWR Electrification. I hope their planners have done a better job here as I doubt GOBLIN users will be keen to suffer further closures to extend platforms on a line which has already been subject to an extended closure. I believe the GOBLIN has using two-car DMUs since before privatisation; it formerly used to have longer trains when services ran into St. Pancras.
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 6, 2016 22:40:44 GMT
Most of the platform lengthening on GEML has been done with trains running. It has also had a lot of weekend closures recently.
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Post by stapler on Dec 7, 2016 8:05:04 GMT
Yes, and very annoying they were. But that was mostly down to OLE renewal and Ilford depot reconfiguartion, not platforms
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Post by snoggle on Dec 7, 2016 19:27:28 GMT
However I really hope they are using this extended closure to sort out the two more problematic short platforms - South Tottenham and Harringey Green Lanes. To confirm my recollection I found a reasonably recent "drivers eye" video taken of the route on YouTube - Gospel Oak - Barking - Darren J which at 8.10 and 10.30 shows that extending these platforms could well be problematic if the line was operational. At Harringey Green Lanes it appears the earlier longer platforms have been removed, leaving just decapitated concrete stubs. As for South Tottenham I suspect the junctions before and after the already staggered platforms may make extending the current platforms problematic. Network Rail have had a fair bit of bad press recently, with delayed and over budget projects like the GWR Electrification. I hope their planners have done a better job here as I doubt GOBLIN users will be keen to suffer further closures to extend platforms on a line which has already been subject to an extended closure. Network Rail are not contracted to lengthen the platforms. TfL have tendered this work separately AFAIK and it's not clear precisely when it will be done. It would be nice to imagine it is being done during the blockade but I'm sceptical that it will be. A lot of the 5 car lengthening works on the NLL was done in engineering hours and occasional weekend possessions. Given longer trains won't run on the GOBLIN until early 2018 the work may not even start until after the blockade is ended. Walthamstow Queens Rd may be an exception given both platforms have been lowered and effectively reconstructed. There was no evidence of extension work being done at Blackhorse Rd when I looked last week. I agree that S Tottenham and Harringay Green Lanes are the more awkward locations. I still have my suspicions that the new bridge over the High Rd at S Tottenham is going to gain attachments to allow the platform to be extended westwards. On the older platforms it is merely a case of ensuring the foundations / structure are in decent nick, weedkilling, resurfacing / drainage / lighting works to put them back into use. There may also be the simple things of signage, seating and passenger shelters but they're small jobs in the scheme of things.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 14:22:27 GMT
Here's an odd edifice...
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Post by stafford on Dec 28, 2016 17:49:35 GMT
They are right to be concerned about piling penetrating tube tunnels, it happened for real when some pile driving gentleman at Redbridge working for the M11 extension southwards over the road roundabout nearby went through the roof of Central Line tunnel - very shallow at that point. I wonder if anyone else recalls the 'WW2 factory stairs'' at Redbridge station, still there long after WW2 ended.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 28, 2016 18:50:26 GMT
The Redbridge incident was only a test drill to get a core sample. Very fortunately for the driver of the train that hit it, it missed him on its way to getting embedded in the bulkhead.
A much bigger auger penetrated the NCL tunnel near Old Street a few years ago. It later transpired that the test bores had not found the tunnel, and over a dozen piles were planned to be put right through where it ran. Fortunately the auger broke drilling the first one, and the driver of a passing train was alerted by the mysterious pile of mud that had suddenly appeared. It seems that none of the council planning department, architect, surveyor, or anyone else involved in the project even knew the line was there. (There are, of course, "no tube lines in Hackney")
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Post by crusty54 on Dec 28, 2016 18:56:33 GMT
The Redbridge incident was only a test drill to get a core sample. Very fortunately for the driver of the train that hit it, it missed him on its way to getting embedded in the bulkhead. A much bigger auger penetrated the NCL tunnel near Old Street a few years ago. It later transpired that the test bores had not found the tunnel, and over a dozen piles were planned to be put right through where it ran. Fortunately the auger broke drilling the first one, and the driver of a passing train was alerted by the mysterious pile of mud that had suddenly appeared. It seems that none of the council planning department, architect, surveyor, or anyone else involved in the project even knew the line was there. (There are, of course, "no tube lines in Hackney") it happened twice in the Redbridge test borings. They guys took a tea break after the first (the tunnel was checked during this time and no cause found so trains resumed) and then tried again. I saw one of the trains at Acton. The damage was significant.
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