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Post by superteacher on Feb 4, 2017 10:29:20 GMT
Glad that the issue has been identified and that it doesn't appear to be a huge problem. It would've been a shame if the whole project had been cancelled. The D's, it seem, will live on!
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Post by 35b on Feb 4, 2017 17:21:21 GMT
Glad that the issue has been identified and that it doesn't appear to be a huge problem. It would've been a shame if the whole project had been cancelled. The D's, it seem, will live on! In engineering terms, I agree. However, if that was the best that VivaRail could put out on a project running a year late, it casts real doubt on the quality of their work - and whether they have the ability to produce something that's actually fit for use. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 4, 2017 17:42:20 GMT
I think the project is a good thing, and am glad to hear that it is progressing. However the report is clearly written from their own perspective rather than an independent viewpoint. Whilst it does identify the immediate cause of the fire, what is not addressed (which probably would be in an RAIB report) is the the failing in the QA processes that allowed such a situation to arise.
I often read Marine accident reports and a few years ago there was a trend in these for high pressure fuel lines to fracture and spray fuel onto a hot thing and then ignite. I believe (but am happy to be corrected) that such high pressure lines in a marine environment are now fitted with guards to prevent exactly this kind of fire.
One wonders that if the GenSets were made within the railway industry (AIUI they aren't) they would have been subject to a more rigourous QA regime that would have (eg) identified the incorrect fuel lines in use.
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Post by philthetube on Feb 4, 2017 19:43:21 GMT
Having read the report I am surprised they published it, it is very critical on a lot of points.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Feb 5, 2017 8:10:19 GMT
Having read the report I am surprised they published it, it is very critical on a lot of points. Sometimes it is best to be 'open and honest' up front, rather than getting found out later. Same applies with the scorecard mentality on the railway, where some managers try to cover up incidents in order to avoid a blot on their scorecard -- it's far worse if the incident subsequently comes to light as whoever discovers it now has a 'scoop', so to speak. Better to put the info out on your own terms, rather than being on the back foot later. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 5, 2017 12:13:08 GMT
Since the fire itself was public knowledge, covering it up would be pointless. The plus points are
- they know how it happened
- they have a plan to stop it happening again
- the passenger compartment was not penetrated by the fire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 14:41:30 GMT
A missed opportunity was to put D-stock trains on the Southeastern rail network, they are seriously short on trains at the moment, and could do with 20 to 30 additional trains. The D-stock trains already have safety certifications to run in passenger service on the national rail network (Wimbledon and Richmond lines), so it could have been much easier to convert them to run on Southeastern.
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Post by crusty54 on Feb 5, 2017 19:57:58 GMT
A missed opportunity was to put D-stock trains on the Southeastern rail network, they are seriously short on trains at the moment, and could do with 20 to 30 additional trains. The D-stock trains already have safety certifications to run in passenger service on the national rail network (Wimbledon and Richmond lines), so it could have been much easier to convert them to run on Southeastern. you obviously don't see what delays the single doors would have caused particularly at London Bridge. The short sections to Wimbledon & Richmond have relatively straight platforms so gaps not a problem. Not so on all Southeastern stations. Also not enough cars. In any case, trains are being added from Thameslink as it gets more deliveries. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 20:28:08 GMT
On analysing the Class 465 doors, each car has two sets of double doors in it, their sum total width would be a little less than the four evenly spaced single doors on the D-stock, because the D-stock single leaf doors are each wider than a single Class 465 door leaf.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 5, 2017 20:39:42 GMT
A missed opportunity was to put D-stock trains on the Southeastern rail network, they are seriously short on trains at the moment, and could do with 20 to 30 additional trains. The D-stock trains already have safety certifications to run in passenger service on the national rail network (Wimbledon and Richmond lines), so it could have been much easier to convert them to run on Southeastern. They have a much lower top speed than most NRcstock. |
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Post by crusty54 on Feb 5, 2017 21:10:00 GMT
On analysing the Class 465 doors, each car has two sets of double doors in it, their sum total width would be a little less than the four evenly spaced single doors on the D-stock, because the D-stock single leaf doors are each wider than a single Class 465 door leaf. the doors are too narrow to allow people on and off at the same time as happens with other Southeastern trains and one of the reasons they have been replaced on the District line. Your theory is that put forward by LUL engineers to justify the single doors and reduce the number of door motors (a problem at the time). In practice it just didn't work. It will be fine on branch lines with limited loadings which is what Vivarail are pushing. |
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Post by brigham on Feb 6, 2017 9:15:42 GMT
Two single doors don't equal a double door. The centre pillar on the Cammell-Laird tube stock was an impediment, despite being barely 4" wide.
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Post by countryman on Feb 6, 2017 12:06:32 GMT
Two single doors don't equal a double door. The centre pillar on the Cammell-Laird tube stock was an impediment, despite being barely 4" wide. And, of course, the earlier standard stock. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 6, 2017 17:08:59 GMT
A single large door also takes longer to open than do two narrower ones opening away from each other - this matters when dwell time is measured in seconds.
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Post by brooklynbound on Mar 22, 2017 12:34:10 GMT
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Post by The Tram Man on Mar 23, 2017 18:58:56 GMT
I was kind of expecting it to have cabs at both ends.
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Post by MoreToJack on Mar 23, 2017 19:19:14 GMT
I was kind of expecting it to have cabs at both ends. It's a one car demonstration vehicle. Any production unit will be made up of at least two DM (driving motor) cars to have a cab at each end. One car units - especially as short as the D stock - are no longer a viable prospect on the UK rail network. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 21:48:14 GMT
On the single car unit, how did they find room to fit the Compressor on board?? - it was always on the trailer car on the D-Stock - as the motor cars were short on space under the floor (traction gear, control equipment and now, the Battery Packs themselves).
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 23, 2017 23:21:52 GMT
On the single car unit, how did they find room to fit the Compressor on board?? - it was always on the trailer car on the D-Stock - as the motor cars were short on space under the floor (traction gear, control equipment and now, the Battery Packs themselves). the new small air compressor were/are mounted as part of the diesel engine in the powered prototype, i realise this new concept is purely battery only. The PCM (Pneumatic Camshaft Mechanism) and MA (Motor Alternator) equipment are removed on the VivaRail cars. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 26, 2017 23:13:31 GMT
I attended Rail Live 2017 and was able to travel on the Vivarail Class 230 conversion of former London Underground D78 rolling stock on the shuttle service between Honeybourne station and the exhibition site at Long Marston. I took my cameras with me! Many photos can be seen on my Flickr pages at the link below. These show inside and outside the train, external views at both Honeybourne station (where the D-train used a specially built temporary platform) and Long Marston. As there are 50+ images I am only sharing a link - and not embedding them all here! www.flickr.com/photos/citytransportinfo/albums/72157685504283365 Unfortunately a couple of images show a small black smudge caused by dust on my still image camera's imaging sensor. Yet to come to Flickr are my images showing withdrawn District Line D78 rolling stock awaiting conversion into Class 230 trains. So far I have also made a short (just under one minute) video of the D-Train in action. A longer film is planned, hopefully before the coming weekend (1st July 2017). btw, track conditions meant that the train was limited to 20mph. Happily the diesel traction units are not heard; keen ears will instead hear the electric motors! Enjoy! Simon |
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Post by Colin D on Jun 27, 2017 0:10:33 GMT
Looking forward to the longer video, thanks for posting.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jun 27, 2017 21:14:24 GMT
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 28, 2017 8:27:17 GMT
They look very smart! Hope this works out for them.
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 1, 2017 20:41:45 GMT
Here we are... at last! I put it that way because it is now Saturday evening; I actually made the film on Friday evening but when watching the film immediately before publishing I noticed that when I added the sound after the 'last minute edit' I made to the still images which show the train interior I used the wrong soundtrack  and I was just too tired to make further changes.  The London locations are Embankment, Southfields and Barons Court. I considered using Kew Gardens rather than Southfields. The advantage was that the trains were side by side (rather either side of an island platform) but I thought that a SWT 455 would better represent a 'mainline train' than a TFL / LO 378. The train was travelling on a little used NR line that has a 20mph speed limit. One can only imagine the condition of the track. I used the video editing software's image stabilisation feature on most internal ride sequences. Where I was unsuccessful in my efforts was sourcing good quality sound when the train starts from rest. I tried, but just about every time there was either too much talking (when inside the train) or external noise was too loud (when outside the train). Not just passing traffic but things like an HST choosing the worst possible moment to race through the station! The train did not seem to accelerate as quickly as I remember when in London, but that might be because of the poor condition of the track limiting speed. Happily the electric motors can be heard during the longish ride inside one the DM's whilst the diesel engines were not too obtrusive. Enjoy! Simon |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jul 2, 2017 16:34:42 GMT
Very nice thank you for making that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2017 1:20:00 GMT
Are these meant to "replace" the pacer along with other new bi-mode trains and what operators will run it or is this info Unknown
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Post by revupminster on Aug 6, 2017 5:35:52 GMT
London Midland may use them occasionally Coventry- Nuneaton after originally abandoning the idea after one caught fire last year (from Modern Railways).
Great Western might have to use them as the big cascade of diesels might be slower than expected due to delays and cancellations of electrification. They could work the branches in Cornwall as Exeter needs more trains for it's timetable improvements and enlarged depot that's would have taken some of the cascaded diesels.
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Post by bassmike on Aug 6, 2017 14:19:35 GMT
The track seems almost as bad as some of LUL's track !
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 15, 2017 20:00:20 GMT
I have seen it said somewhere else (another forum) that a new franchise will use three 2car Class 230 trains on the Bletchley - Bedford service.
This sounds like that the London Midland franchise has been won by someone else but I am not 100% certain about this.
No doubt more will become known in due course.
Simon
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Sept 15, 2017 20:50:28 GMT
I have seen it said somewhere else (another forum) that a new franchise will use three 2car Class 230 trains on the Bletchley - Bedford service. This sounds like that the London Midland franchise has been won by someone else but I am not 100% certain about this. No doubt more will become known in due course. Simon A consortium of Abellio, JR East and Mitsui will form West Midlands Trains as the new operators from 10 December 2017. I cannot confirm if they will use Class 230, but there will be new and refurbished trains for many routes. |
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and I was just too tired to make further changes. 
