Vivarail's 'D Train' - 'D' stock reborn

Is the next version going to be solar powered?

I'd not thought of wind turbines on trains previously, but I suspect gauge clearances might be an issue. I wonder if LU have thought of them for the roofs of station tunnels though to supplement station power? I guess though that maintenance overheads (no pun intended) and frictional losses might not outweigh the costs. I know aeroplanes feature Ram air turbines, which according to Wikipedia are generally around 80cm diameter and "a typical large RAT on a commercial aircraft can be capable of producing, depending on the generator, from 5 to 70 kW. Smaller, low airspeed models may generate as little as 400 watts." 80cm is going to be significantly outside the gauge on UK rolling stock I would have thought, and much smaller ones aren't going to produce enough power to be worth it.

Or just use the axles as generators

Wind turbines on the train would also be a perpetual motion machine

This battery version seems to be the best option so far, although I'm sure there's a place for the DEMU version once they've been tried in service. You have to admire the optimism of the team behind this project and given the recent headlines about reopening closed lines, these could yet have a significant part to play. People just have to get over the snobbery of "they're not brand new" as they could be lucky to have any trains at all!

wind turbines on a train would not work, the drag created would be greater than the power generated.

No more so than an alternator on a car. It would only be perpetual motion if the turbines were at least 100% efficient and power they produced was being used to generate the forward motion that creates the wind they use to generate the power.

Even if you are planning on using the windmills for some purpose other than propulsion (such as lighting, charging a battery, etc) the extra power needed to be supplied to the train to overcome the drag from windmills would be greater than that which the windmills would be producing. It would be more efficient to use that power to charge the batteries / (etc) directly.

Setting aside the perpetual motion ideas, I too hope the VivaRail project proves to be successful.

Reduce, reuse, recycle and repurpose are messages which should be encouraged positively not belittled as being yet another example of the North being fobbed off with London's cast offs.

Sadly my generation should be truly ashamed of the mess we have made of this planet. The iThing generation seems to largely unwilling to accept anything but the latest brand new wizz-bang, a generation quite happy to throw away perfectly serviceable stuff, resulting in vast areas being ravaged to extract fresh minerals to supply an ever growing demand for finite resources and creating a toxic rubbish legacy which future generations will not thank us for.

VivaRail shows a refreshingly frank willingness to learn from mistakes, to solve technical challenges and adapt to abrupt changes in the market which most mainstream manufacturers only offering minor variants on their core product line-up currently seem ill equipped to do.

We have growing concerns over the health impact of diesel emissions, yet plans to electrify major routes have just been kicked into the distant future meaning diesel will be the mainstay for many more years, and as for branch lines without a radical alternative they will be permanently stuck with diesel.

The modular raft approach adopted by VivaRail provides a versatile solution where owners can plug in whatever power raft they want - so batteries, or diesel or both.

I wonder if there is space to add a pantograph and power transformers to allow the battery variant to take advantage of a short spells of opportunity charging at each end of a minor route to extend their battery range. Already many minor routes terminate at stations with some existing OHLE provision so presumably it would be not be a massive technical challenge to extend the OHLE to provide a power supply on just the platform area of the minor route as well. A cost which presumably would be a whole lot less than installing end to end OHLE.

Then whilst crew take a comfort break, change ends and prepare for the return journey, 5 minutes hooked up to OHLE could recharge the batteries with enough juice to complete another out and back circuit. That would be a brilliant solution for minor routes in scenic areas where conventional OHLE can look a blot on the landscape and would also mean an end to diesel fumes.

Personally I was impressed by the demonstration unit walk-through and think it would make a pretty good unit for many minor routes journeys especially if it also offered comfortable seats.

Perpetual motion - I thought I’d wandered into some Science Fiction thread . . .

I now have visions of the Guard walking the pole around at the end of the trip. (Yes I know this isn't what's planned)

ANY form of temporary connection would suffice, including a jumper cable.
The original Parry cars had a sliding side contact at stops, to recharge the flywheel.
My proposal to return MET services to Aylesbury includes (among other things) recharging of accumulators during layover.

Bus style opportunity charging often uses the OppCharge system developed by Volvo with industry partners - here the pantograph lowers onto power conductors on the roof of the bus. This system is only for stationary use - typically terminal bus stop layovers between journeys.

Simon

The Oerlikon Gyrobus worked in a similar fashion, although 3-phase, and without the chemical battery element.
Intermittent rail electric systems are not exactly new. Another idea involved continuous third-rail on adverse gradients, with stored energy used on the level, and regeneration when running downhill.
It isn't the technology that's lacking, it's the impetus. What we need is a massive oil embargo. We would have it solved within the year.