What Happened Here?

I've watched this a few times since yesterday. From what I understand, the train partly left the station, and then passengers saw smoke and possibly pulled the PEA? Don't understand that guy stuck in the doors though.

Edit: Someone on the video has commented saying that there was no fire and the brakes on one car of the train was staying on and the T/Op was dealing with that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the attempts to force those doors open broke them in some way.

if there was emergency releases at end of each car clearly marked emergency exit release then people could evacuate quicker then waiting for doors to be opened
in most trains - all have emergency releases located at clearly marked postion eg emergency exit door

examples
Bart/WMATA: located at middle of car
DLR: located at each door (the release handles at floor level for disabled access to reach)
Network rail trains - commonly found at each door (locations are vary also emergency windows)

i believe its evacuation message - please leave station quickly by using nearset exit - this normally played when fire alarm is activated (in video i see person pressing fire alarm box)
not sure but i know its played when fire alarm sounds - in Sunderland station once - we had fire alarm - the message was played telling people to exit station quickly

According to the BBC London 6pm TV report, LU had been warned about the safety risks of the inner inter car barriers (particularly during an emergency situation) before they were installed...

"Ladies and gentlemen. Your attention please. Due to a reported emergency, would all passengers leave the station immediately?"

this should improved - example leave the station via nearest exit or use emergency exit

Well the DLR has emergency door releases accessible to the passenger (and separate ones only accessible to the PSA).

My theory about them not being on the Underground is that in proportionately far fewer cases will they be a good thing. Opening the bodyside doors when in a tube tunnel is not going to help - you can't away from the train but you can potentially fall between it and the tunnel wall, and nothing good will ever result from that. On the surface sections, you don't have that issue but you do have two unprotected electrified rails to worry about. Far better to have a properly organised evacuation than pax self-detraining.

It is interesting to observe how people react in an emergency (or a perceived emergency).

The largest single civilian loss of life in WW2 happened at Bethnal Green station, as people reacted to an air raid siren and crushed each other going down the stairs into the station.

It is possible to control the trains in terms of making them fire retardant etc but it isn't possible to control the people who use them!

Having door release mechanisms inside the train could lead to a more serious accident - since there is no room inside the tunnels and live electric rails underneath the train. When you observe how people reacted to this situation, imagine what would happen if 1000 people in the rush hour all started trying to evacuate the train via side doors in a tunnel.

Tube trains are designed not to catch fire, and aren't designed to be evacuated in an aircraft style 90 second evacuation.

The video highlights why cutting station staff is dangerous... Evacuating the train in this situation is dependent on staff or emergency services opening butterfly cocks or detraining passengers.

Chaos!


People pressed the emergency stop button, the fire alarm call point, the passenger emergency alarm

What that woman done was incredibly dangerous. She would not have known if the train was secure or not. If the train had moved she might have fallen under the train. Furthermore those helping her might have been injured too.

Most of us know that looking at that situation the train was unlikely to move, but these people do not that.

Putting Emergency Door Open controls inside carriages maybe something LUL might wish to consider. But given the potential for missuse as others have stated, I would agree that the consequences of malicious use might outweigh the benefits.

My biggest surprise was how long it took for Station Staff to attend. Having dealt with the crowd movements at Carnival in the past, Holland Park was certainly a core station for Carnival traffic. Normally we flooded the station with staff, so I assume they might have been dealing with something elsewhere.

There were a few other issues that I would not speculate on group, but something else I spotted on that video concerned me. For risk of giving away a trade secret, it was the one thing that I expected to happen immediately that did not.

But as Jamesb states a storm in a Teacup, but it shows how quickly these things get out of hand.

Dean

With Carnival the objective has always been to keep the train service moving. The last thing we wanted was a sit down at Notting Hill Gate or either side of that. The volume of customers using the Central line at the peaks was something to be seen to be believed. In fact (although I am not sure this is still the case) we had a one way system in place which allowed passengers to exit the station until about 16:00hrs. No interchange was available as both District & Circle non stopped on platforms 1 & 2.

The station ticket hall at NHG was the biggest pinch point, and the outbound flow prevented anyone (even staff) entering the station from street level. Therefore staff who found themselves in the street had to walk to HPk and re-join the Central line.

The two main banks of escalators (comprising of four) operated in an Upwards direction. On the platforms we had staff to hold trains to prevent customers being caught by the train as it arrived and departed. It was a well-orchestrated event. Clearly heavily loaded trains would be held in the tunnels outside the station.

So in the middle all of this we could not afford any sort of problem which might affect the regularity of the service. Unfortunately with Carnival goers there is an element who might well be less behaved. I seem to recall that activated PEA’s were fairly common. Dealing with these quickly was essential. As a result we had both Train managers & Station staff on the Central Line platforms to assist the train service.

Therefore if we take the scenario on and assume that the train at HP was stalled temporarily, passengers on following trains sitting in the tunnel might decide to use the emergency door open devices perhaps as a means to increase ventilation. Once this happens the train is screwed down. The driver would need to access that door from inside the train, which would mean at its very worse passing through 1200 passengers to get to the source of the problem. I would imagine once that happens the sole driver would need outside assistance.

And of course once that happens, you have lost the service.

Dean

Can you enlighten us on the cutting of station staff? I know there was a leaked document about closing all ticket offices, but what other staff are to be cut?

I think the biggest problem here is over-reliance on CCTV. In my experience, you don't see station staff on the platform unless it's rush hour or when they're doing their routine checks (that cupboard doors are secure etc)

Trains will not move with open doors, unless the operate the traction current interlock (or similar) which essentially cuts out the need to have a pilot light, but I understand that the train can not be carrying passengers for very long (if it all) with it operated. As for using the butterfly cocks (external egress devices) these will cause a loss of pilot light and thus interlock, so until the door is proved shut again, the train cannot move unless they use the traction current interlock. On stocks with TMSs (92 onwards) the driver may be informed that an egress device has been used, or it may simply display "door fault".