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Post by philthetube on Jan 13, 2016 6:42:09 GMT
I would be very surprised if this wiring A) exists after refurb and B) if it does is still useable 46 years on. That is not to say that these trains cannot be used for ATO, though I would not expect the Bakerloo to be resignalled for it prior to the introduction of new stock.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Jan 13, 2016 7:30:23 GMT
I would be very surprised if this wiring A) exists after refurb and B) if it does is still useable 46 years on. That is not to say that these trains cannot be used for ATO, though I would not expect the Bakerloo to be resignalled for it prior to the introduction of new stock. It would be hard to justify resignalling the Bakerloo, as the current signalling meets the headway requirements, and the current frequency basically meets demand as it stands. In fact, for LU the current signalling is fairly sparse, most stations for example having only one home signal. If there was a need to increase the service, it could be achieved by altering the existing signalling whilst still retaining manual driving. The provision for ATO on the 72 stock was largely passive, so would still require hardware such as auto driver boxes, assuming one was going for a system similar to the 67 stock. It wouldn't be worth doing this for the remaining life of the stock, assuming something like the old Victoria Line system could be made to meet today's standards. Finally you would run into a problem with the 4x 72MkI trains which would require additional works. Basically it's a non-starter technically. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 13, 2016 7:30:57 GMT
I agree the Bakerloo is unlikely to be converted to ATO prior to new stock and even an extension taking place and that is many years away. There isn't the business case for it either.
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North End
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Post by North End on Jan 13, 2016 7:35:56 GMT
The spares issue could have been abated by the withdrawal of the 67TS, with a large parts commonality it will have made sense to heavily cannibalise that fleet and there may now be a considerable spares pool. This is, of course, hypothetical, and such a thing may not have happened. The 72TS still seems to be in fairly good fettle at the present time (save perhaps for the interiors). Out of interest, did LU do much heavy cannibalisation of the 67TS to get a large spares pool for the 72TS? I suspect some of the vehicles which went to Eastleigh (both 72Mk1 and 67 stock) will almost certainly have had parts sent back to LU, as each vehicle spent some time in the sheds before being scrapped. However for those scrapped at Booths, possibly not, unless some parts were removed at Acton Works in the brief time each train spent there before being taken away by road. There are still a couple of units on LU. I'm not sure how much spares cover would actually be needed though, there would already be a stock of the main components, as far as I know REW at Acton still specialise in overhauling these sorts of spares. Any component which couldn't be kept going in this way would have to be replaced with a modern design on a fleet-wide basis. The bigger issue could be if the engineering skills diminish over time, now there will soon be only 2 old stocks on the system retaining equipment like camshafts. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 19:59:56 GMT
The spares issue could have been abated by the withdrawal of the 67TS, with a large parts commonality it will have made sense to heavily cannibalise that fleet and there may now be a considerable spares pool. This is, of course, hypothetical, and such a thing may not have happened. The 72TS still seems to be in fairly good fettle at the present time (save perhaps for the interiors). Out of interest, did LU do much heavy cannibalisation of the 67TS to get a large spares pool for the 72TS? as far as I know REW at Acton still specialise in overhauling these sorts of spares. |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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Post by towerman on Jan 15, 2016 12:53:20 GMT
As far as I can remember the ATO wiring was removed on refurb.
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Post by 100andthirty on Jan 17, 2016 19:46:47 GMT
Sorry spsmiler: 1) the wiring was for the original Victoria Line ATO, and would be in all the wrong places and the wrong style for anything that could be bought today and 2) much of it was used to implement OPO many years ago
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Jan 31, 2016 22:58:41 GMT
From memory it is getting the Landmark / Barman moquette, but with a more brown palette consistent with the LU map line colour. Regards, Dan You mean blue and brown, not blue and red? That would not be distinctive enough. Okay, enough of the speculation because I haven't seen any in action yet. Is it being truly rolled out now? As a side note, most seats of the current moquette are already wearing out. |
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Post by carltona on Feb 4, 2016 6:37:23 GMT
From memory it is getting the Landmark / Barman moquette, but with a more brown palette consistent with the LU map line colour. Regards, Dan Okay, enough of the speculation because I haven't seen any in action yet. Is it being truly rolled out now? As a side note, most seats of the current moquette are already wearing out. Until recently I was seeing some replacement of the current moquette, but perhaps that has run out now. There are some badly worn cushions now which are black and shiny and give a very shabby impression. |
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Post by br7mt on Feb 4, 2016 20:10:12 GMT
Grey and brown as opposed to blue and red.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by A60stock on Mar 17, 2016 13:37:18 GMT
are the door chimes on the 72ts due to change or in the process of being changed? I was on one the other day and the chimes on one of the doors were certainly a little different to the usual ones, rather more "modern" sounding and similar to the 09ts
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 20, 2016 14:49:48 GMT
There's supposed to be some new seating moquette on the 1972s but (unless I have missed it in another post?) I haven't seen any reports of it yet. I seem to recall vaguely somewhere that the 72 was to be fitted with a "striking new brown moquette" has this materialised yet or not?
Edit: OMG beaten to the post by a few seconds! Ah yes here we go:
"During November 2015 we will begin to replace the seat cushion and back fabric with a striking new brown moquette design. Seating will be complete by April 2016 if the supplier delivers at the agreed rate." From memory it is getting the Landmark / Barman moquette, but with a more brown palette consistent with the LU map line colour. Regards, Dan    |
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Mar 20, 2016 15:44:15 GMT
When will the first run be? I hope to see for it myself (apart from 29 March to 1 April, when I will be after the MS 61 Stock instead).
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Post by Alight on Mar 20, 2016 15:56:54 GMT
I rather like the new upholstery, though I think that the standardised Bauman moquette as seen elsewhere would have still worked. The flooring also looks rather swish and I am pleased to hear that the transverse seating has been retained. What isn't clear from the photographs is whether or not the lighting has switched over to LED? I also wonder if the CIS has been upgraded?
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 21, 2016 6:39:32 GMT
I really like this the colour scheme is very sensitive to the Bakerloo line and the age if the trains. The floor looks good too. I wonder if the proposal to remove a couple of longitudinal seats in the 43XX cars will happen?
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Post by phoenixcronin on Mar 21, 2016 9:48:30 GMT
I really like this the colour scheme is very sensitive to the Bakerloo line and the age if the trains. The floor looks good too. I wonder if the proposal to remove a couple of longitudinal seats in the 43XX cars will happen? Is that to provide a wheelchair area? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 23, 2016 5:24:54 GMT
Yes that's correct.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2016 12:49:01 GMT
liking the new look, look forward to seeing it rolled out  |
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Post by patrickb on Mar 29, 2016 16:45:25 GMT
Why can't the 92's be given a more dignified overhaul, it's got more stickers than a sticker book and the Blue Barman Moquette doesn't work very well.
Otherwise, impressive overhaul for the long lasting 72's.
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Post by A60stock on Mar 30, 2016 12:39:53 GMT
1. How many trains are currently in service with the new interior?
2. Will the front headlights be changed to LED during this period?
3. Will the 1973 stock be receiving a similar update or are they fine to last until replacement?
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Post by phoenixcronin on Mar 30, 2016 16:45:54 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Mar 30, 2016 16:50:26 GMT
I bet the seats will be less comfortable. That seems to be a trend these days.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 30, 2016 20:06:34 GMT
I bet the seats will be less comfortable. That seems to be a trend these days. seats just getting new coverings |
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Post by A60stock on Mar 30, 2016 22:30:05 GMT
Personally, I think tfl have made a big mistake in stating that this is a complete refurbishment. To me a "complete refurbishment" is what was done to most LU stock during the 90s (and the d stock in the 2000s).
This is pretty much just a new floor, paint and seats. Looking at the comments, most people are able to tell straight away that there's not actually that much different. Perhaps if there had been DMIs added to the inside of the carriages, it would have helped. Even if they got the trains looking anything like the 73ts interiors, this would help.
I should make it clear though, i am a fan of keeping these trains as close to original condition as possible, they are the last to have any sort of resemblance of the 70s/80s
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Post by patrickb on Mar 30, 2016 22:53:19 GMT
Personally, I think tfl have made a big mistake in stating that this is a complete refurbishment. To me a "complete refurbishment" is what was done to most LU stock during the 90s (and the d stock in the 2000s). This is pretty much just a new floor, paint and seats. Looking at the comments, most people are able to tell straight away that there's not actually that much different. Perhaps if there had been DMIs added to the inside of the carriages, it would have helped. Even if they got the trains looking anything like the 73ts interiors, this would help. I should make it clear though, i am a fan of keeping these trains as close to original condition as possible, they are the last to have any sort of resemblance of the 70s/80s You have to remember that the 72's are starting to wear down pretty badly below the solebar and issues like a build up of grime and corrosion need to be addressed as well. I'ts becoming more evident now that these units will be around on the Bakerloo for a few years and potentially break the record for longest served Deep-Level rolling stock, currently held by the 72's predecessor. However, arguably, you could say that this is a light overhaul which will suffice for the number of years these lovely trains have left in service. |
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Post by rsdworker on Mar 31, 2016 12:41:03 GMT
nice so i am not sure if they are installing wheelchair spaces? i not seen any pictures or official statement what they have done with refurbishment
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 31, 2016 18:41:18 GMT
I would certainly say these have had a refresh above solebar but as said the work below solebar I belive is far beyond the refurb work carried out in the 90s!
The current record on the underground for longest service is the A stock with 51 years. I really hope the 72s break this record.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 31, 2016 19:14:59 GMT
I would certainly say these have had a refresh above solebar but as said the work below solebar I belive is far beyond the refurb work carried out in the 90s! The current record on the underground for longest service is the A stock with 51 years. Not quite. I rode in a 1938 stock car on a normal scheduled London Underground service in 1994 when it was 56 years old. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1960_Stock#/media/File:1960-Red-North-Weald.jpg |
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Post by patrickb on Mar 31, 2016 23:18:50 GMT
The current record on the underground for longest service is the A stock with 51 years. Indeed, I had thought of mentioning it, however I wasn't sure if the A60/62 Stock had reached 51 or not. I shall therefore amend my comment by referring only to Deep Level Rolling Stock  norbitonflyer Whilst what you say is correct, 1938TS trailers with 1960TS workings are exempt in this particular case because the record can only qualify if the particular rolling stock in question is in service unaided by other types like said 1960TS. |
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Post by A60stock on Apr 1, 2016 8:38:24 GMT
Hasn't it already been set in stone that the 72ts WILL break the record considering the title of this thread is "until 2030s"??
Also when the a stock was as old as the 72ts are currently (around 44 years), there didnt seem to be much fuss about the age of the units and how reliable they were etc, neither were any amendments made below the sole-bar at this age, whereas with the 72ts, there seems to be much more concern about them in general, despite the fact they don't even reach speeds anywhere near the a stock did
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