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Post by gals on Mar 5, 2018 17:32:43 GMT
Are they going to take the opportunity to refresh the interiors during this work?
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 5, 2018 19:20:48 GMT
Are they going to take the opportunity to refresh the interiors during this work? The whole fleet has already had some saloon works with new moquette, paintwork, linings, flooring and a deep clean, RVAR works starting once mainframe works are complete will introduce internal dot matrix displays plus some layout changes in specific cars for multi use bays. |
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Post by A60stock on Mar 6, 2018 0:15:48 GMT
Where will the internal dmis fit? Is there any space for these?
Will the destination roller blinds also be changed to dmis in order to sync with the internal dmis?
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Post by madbess on Mar 6, 2018 17:45:39 GMT
Could they not fit proper displays similar to those fitted to class 700s? Or is the cost of those too great for the remaining life of the trains?
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 6, 2018 18:20:02 GMT
Where will the internal dmis fit? Is there any space for these? Will the destination roller blinds also be changed to dmis in order to sync with the internal dmis? I'd assume that space would be made around the space between the Car Line Diagrams, the Round Polkadot Speaker and Central London Tube Map (above the vents) I not sure RVAR specifies a change in the external blinds and given the extra cost incurred by doing this, I don't think it would be necessary. Could they not fit proper displays similar to those fitted to class 700s? Or is the cost of those too great for the remaining life of the trains? The internal DMI's and multi use bays are there to comply with the changes to Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations that will come into force when the 72 fleet are still expected to be in service which is now more or less certain. Given the current financial constraints, the bare minimum is what's being done on the surface with most of the life extension work concentrating on what passengers don't usually get to see. I'm not sure how derogation orders could work with RVAR but clearly the commitments have already been made even though the merits of this final scheme of work are going to be very limited even with a hefty delay in procuring a replacement fleet for these old soldiers. |
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Mar 7, 2018 13:25:49 GMT
I hope they keep Clarke on the stock...
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Post by superteacher on Mar 7, 2018 22:44:07 GMT
I hope they keep Clarke on the stock... Kenneth Clarke?  |
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 13, 2018 21:22:51 GMT
Just seen this post on Twitter showing a 72 stock (I think SB at Warwick Avenue) that has been trial fitted with LED headlights. This made me think back reading this article about LED lighting tenders that were in the works in 2015 and wondered if the two are related. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 13, 2018 22:28:23 GMT
Do we know the car number. I’m surprised the 72s were not fitted with led tail lights from the A and C stocks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 21:38:01 GMT
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Post by A60stock on Apr 1, 2018 13:52:35 GMT
will the 73/92/95 stock also be fitted with LED light headlights?
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Apr 1, 2018 14:39:17 GMT
will the 73/92/95 stock also be fitted with LED light headlights? Hopefully not - they're horrible - but it's quite possible it will happen at some point. Having said that, the 95 stock had the headlamps replaced just before TBTC came in with something brighter, which are more than fit for purpose. So no incentive from a user's point of view, but there may be some maintenance benefit. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 15:33:39 GMT
The 72s suffer from problems with its batteries. The batteries are for emergency use (when traction current is discharged etc you still have lighting) and are rated to last x amount of time. They struggle to get anywhere near the time required so I believe they are looking into ways to reduce power draw and think this is one part of that.
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Post by waysider on Apr 4, 2018 19:08:54 GMT
So is that the batteries kicking in when all the lights dim say at the points south of Waterloo/ Lambeth North?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 4, 2018 19:28:07 GMT
So is that the batteries kicking in when all the lights dim say at the points south of Waterloo/ Lambeth North? The MAs Motor Alternators and batteries dual feed the emergency lighting circuits, When the traction supply is lost, thus to the MAs the batteries will take over, maintaining light in those fluorescent tubes. |
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 4, 2018 20:35:25 GMT
So is that the batteries kicking in when all the lights dim say at the points south of Waterloo/ Lambeth North? The MAs Motor Alternators and batteries dual feed the emergency lighting circuits, When the traction supply is lost, thus to the MAs the batteries will take over, maintaining light in those fluorescent tubes. there was an enquiry out for LED tubes to replace the fluorescents. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 4, 2018 22:35:00 GMT
Hopefully warm white!
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Post by carltona on Jul 8, 2018 15:38:55 GMT
I was on a 72 stock recently that seemed to have a wheel flat or faulty bogie. The ride was bad and there was quite a noise. I appreciate the trains have seen better days but would there be any point in members of the public reporting stuff like this? Presumably all cars are inspected at the end of the day but the train would not be moving at that point.
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Post by 100andthirty on Jul 8, 2018 16:29:10 GMT
carltona…..if its not an end car, then it could go some time before it's noticed. Train Operators will probably notice defects on outer driving motor cars. If you take the car number and report it and the nature of the defect to a staff member (eg - sounds like flats), they should pass it on to the line controller
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Post by superteacher on Jul 8, 2018 17:30:46 GMT
I was on a 72 stock recently that seemed to have a wheel flat or faulty bogie. The ride was bad and there was quite a noise. I appreciate the trains have seen better days but would there be any point in members of the public reporting stuff like this? Presumably all cars are inspected at the end of the day but the train would not be moving at that point. Even newer trains get flats and it’s always worth them repairing it due to potential damage to the rails, which is far more problematic. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 8, 2018 18:14:50 GMT
I was on a 72 stock recently that seemed to have a wheel flat or faulty bogie. The ride was bad and there was quite a noise. I appreciate the trains have seen better days but would there be any point in members of the public reporting stuff like this? Presumably all cars are inspected at the end of the day but the train would not be moving at that point. Report it if you got the details, the sooner it's flagged up the less damage it could do in the interim, even messaging the lines Twitter feed will usually get messages to the relevant department. I'm told by a retired friend that the clanger seen in the video below was initially flagged up by passengers and as such procedures were put in place asap. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 18:18:58 GMT
While it may seem a bit strange, please do report stuff if you can. Even if it means taking note of the number and flagging it up here. Some problems can go undetected/ can't easily be replicated in the depot, so would not be found in a long time. In the long run, it will reduce delays.
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Post by carltona on Jul 11, 2018 12:57:20 GMT
While it may seem a bit strange, please do report stuff if you can. Even if it means taking note of the number and flagging it up here. Some problems can go undetected/ can't easily be replicated in the depot, so would not be found in a long time. In the long run, it will reduce delays. OK, thanks for all your comments. I will note the car number next time and report it on here most likely. It was an inside DM which was banging and rattling so the T Op would have been some distance away. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Aug 4, 2018 14:45:24 GMT
Hmm that video inspires a light bulb moment.
As stock on the Bakerloo gets older I guess the risk of wheel flats will rise for any rolling stock which lacks any form of wheel slip detection.
That video suggests that you could quickly and easily implement a very cheap wheel flat detection system - assuming there are still signalling staff employed somewhere.
Basically as trains shuttle back and forth along the same route it would only take providing the signallers cabin with a simple video camera feed with sound from a nearby platform which all trains are expected to transit.
I suspect it would not take very long for the signalling staff to notice any train producing such a loud thump thump sound, and likewise will pretty much ignore the sound of any which don't. Sort of like most car drivers quickly get tuned to what sounds are normal.
As and when a train sounds weird, presumably the signallers are ideally placed to identify the affected unit and get the maintenance staff to intervene to swap it out with another train whilst the problem is resolved. For very little investment the Bakerloo could potentially achieve very rapid pay-back through reduced track damage.
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Post by bruce on Aug 4, 2018 20:02:20 GMT
Hmm that video inspires a light bulb moment. As stock on the Bakerloo gets older I guess the risk of wheel flats will rise for any rolling stock which lacks any form of wheel slip detection. That video suggests that you could quickly and easily implement a very cheap wheel flat detection system - assuming there are still signalling staff employed somewhere. Basically as trains shuttle back and forth along the same route it would only take providing the signallers cabin with a simple video camera feed with sound from a nearby platform which all trains are expected to transit. I suspect it would not take very long for the signalling staff to notice any train producing such a loud thump thump sound, and likewise will pretty much ignore the sound of any which don't. Sort of like most car drivers quickly get tuned to what sounds are normal. As and when a train sounds weird, presumably the signallers are ideally placed to identify the affected unit and get the maintenance staff to intervene to swap it out with another train whilst the problem is resolved. For very little investment the Bakerloo could potentially achieve very rapid pay-back through reduced track damage. If such a system was installed in a line control room, I can say that within 12 hours it would be turned off by one means or another. Signalling staff as you call them, do not need something that can interfere with their concentration in times of failures or incidents. |
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Post by dm1 on Aug 4, 2018 21:06:01 GMT
Hmm that video inspires a light bulb moment. As stock on the Bakerloo gets older I guess the risk of wheel flats will rise for any rolling stock which lacks any form of wheel slip detection. That video suggests that you could quickly and easily implement a very cheap wheel flat detection system - assuming there are still signalling staff employed somewhere. Basically as trains shuttle back and forth along the same route it would only take providing the signallers cabin with a simple video camera feed with sound from a nearby platform which all trains are expected to transit. I suspect it would not take very long for the signalling staff to notice any train producing such a loud thump thump sound, and likewise will pretty much ignore the sound of any which don't. Sort of like most car drivers quickly get tuned to what sounds are normal. As and when a train sounds weird, presumably the signallers are ideally placed to identify the affected unit and get the maintenance staff to intervene to swap it out with another train whilst the problem is resolved. For very little investment the Bakerloo could potentially achieve very rapid pay-back through reduced track damage. If such a system was installed in a line control room, I can say that within 12 hours it would be turned off by one means or another. Signalling staff as you call them, do not need something that can interfere with their concentration in times of failures or incidents. Or perhaps an ideal application for machine learning? |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 4, 2018 22:31:48 GMT
All that a system would seem to need would be a microphone at or near track level and some means of identifying an individual train. The latter could be as simple as a clock synchronised to the clock of a system that knows which train is in a given signalling section at any one time (and/or which signalling section a given train is in at given time) as long as the microphone was positioned such that it picked up only one train at a time. It would be very easy for a computer to compare the waveforms of a train running past with that of a train known not to have flats and then generate an alert for someone (the line controller?) to take action.
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 4, 2018 23:57:04 GMT
The Bakerloo line is controlled partially from the Baker Street Signalling Centre and partially from Wembley IECC.
As has already been mentioned, introducing intrusive noise into the environment would 100% not be a good thing.
I can't speak for SCCs but in the Cabins concentration is crucial, and such a system would only distract from that. Listening to the various clicks and clunks of the relays and locks are also extremely helpful when operating an area, and I don't want anything that drowns those out - on at least three occasions they have alerted me to a significant failure and allowed me to act far more proactively than might otherwise have been the case.
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Post by philthetube on Aug 5, 2018 12:16:27 GMT
Hmm that video inspires a light bulb moment. As stock on the Bakerloo gets older I guess the risk of wheel flats will rise for any rolling stock which lacks any form of wheel slip detection. That video suggests that you could quickly and easily implement a very cheap wheel flat detection system - assuming there are still signalling staff employed somewhere. Basically as trains shuttle back and forth along the same route it would only take providing the signallers cabin with a simple video camera feed with sound from a nearby platform which all trains are expected to transit. I suspect it would not take very long for the signalling staff to notice any train producing such a loud thump thump sound, and likewise will pretty much ignore the sound of any which don't. Sort of like most car drivers quickly get tuned to what sounds are normal. As and when a train sounds weird, presumably the signallers are ideally placed to identify the affected unit and get the maintenance staff to intervene to swap it out with another train whilst the problem is resolved. For very little investment the Bakerloo could potentially achieve very rapid pay-back through reduced track damage. The idea is sound, it just needs someone other than signallers to monitor it. There is no reason why a train becomes more prone to flats as it gets older, the trains shouldn't change and as drivers only drive one type of stock the skill levels should remain the same. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 5, 2018 23:03:50 GMT
I'm not sure you'd strictly need either machine learning or a human observer for such audio monitoring. Flats make a loud repetitive thump related to the speed of the train. If the equipment were on the train it'd be able to listen, and compare the occurrence of sudden regular changes in volume to the rotational speed of the wheels. The trouble then would be how to monitor all wheel-sets on a train. To fix it to a platform would require far less equipment, but as you intimate would require something more nuanced and sophisticated to be developed.
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