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Post by chris on Jul 7, 2005 11:54:24 GMT
4 explosions so far, more predicted by some to make it 8 (G8). Confusions and terror reigns and from what i've seen on TV the situation is horrific. How many fatalities will there be? Terrible business.
What I wanted to check was is everyone who works on LU here OK?
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Post by Bill on Jul 7, 2005 13:46:14 GMT
i've heard rumour an H&C driver remains unaccounted for. anyone know any details? I really hope they are ok.
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Post by chris on Jul 7, 2005 13:54:22 GMT
What has gone so wrong where innocent people can't travel to work, and LU staff can't do their jobs without some buggers ruining it?
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Post by q8 on Jul 7, 2005 15:45:46 GMT
What has gone so wrong where innocent people can't travel to work, and LU staff can't do their jobs without some buggers ruining it?
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If I gave MY opinion on that people would say I was a racist when all it is is pragmatism and common sense. I object to all this PC stuff when these barbarians and criminals can do what they like and I can't say what I want.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2005 18:07:35 GMT
If I gave MY opinion on that people would say I was a racist when all it is is pragmatism and common sense. I object to all this PC stuff when these barbarians and criminals can do what they like and I can't say what I want. I totally agree Q8 |
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Post by setttt on Jul 7, 2005 18:25:05 GMT
I'm not going to use the tube unless I have my gedore key with me from now on. If I'm going to be caught up in something like this, I want to be able to get out quickly.
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Post by chris on Jul 7, 2005 18:26:12 GMT
I'm not going to use the tube unless I have my gedore key with me from now on. If I'm going to be caught up in something like this, I want to be able to get out quickly. I doubt something like this will happen for a long while. I wouldn't worry about it. |
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Post by setttt on Jul 7, 2005 18:30:33 GMT
I'm not going to use the tube unless I have my gedore key with me from now on. If I'm going to be caught up in something like this, I want to be able to get out quickly. I doubt something like this will happen for a long while. I wouldn't worry about it. I'm no worried as such, it's just if something like this does happen again, I want an easy escape. I always carry my key anyway, so I doubt I'll use the system any less. |
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Post by Colin D on Jul 7, 2005 18:31:41 GMT
Well said Q8
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Post by piccadillypilot on Jul 7, 2005 18:40:28 GMT
Shame that no one bothers to find out why these people do such things.
If you find out and understand the reason there's a much better chance of solving the problem.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 7, 2005 19:18:17 GMT
I wouldn't be too sure that it won't happen again. We have to remain as vigilant as ever. Another attack could happen anytime, anywhere. I'm not trying to scare anyone - I'm being realistic. It's just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, simple as that.
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Post by q8 on Jul 7, 2005 19:29:37 GMT
Shame that no one bothers to find out why these people do such things.
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They do it PP because they see us and especially America as bastions of corruption, dens of inquity, havens of greed and harbours of materialism. They want us all to live by there own distorted views of life.
There is nothing so deadly as a religious fanatic.
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Post by banana on Jul 7, 2005 19:52:28 GMT
Who are "they"? Just because "they" may be of a different skin hue, or worship a different deity I just hope that no-one generalises "they" into a easily-identifiable group. Personally I am PROUD to live in London - a most multi-cultural society; a city where over 200 languages are spoken. I don't remember anyone calling for anyone with Irish parents or grandparents to be sent "home" to Ireland. I'm not saying anyone is saying anything but you should speak your minds but I would suggest that you examine the facts first.
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Post by Bill on Jul 7, 2005 20:12:50 GMT
I don't think anyone is generalising here. I believe that "they" refers to those responsible for the horrific attacks and terrorists in general. skin colour has nothing to do with it, I expect rags like the sun will try to stir up a bit of mass-panic and race hate in time for some summer riots, but the vast majority of people know the score and they know that the vast majority of people of whatever faith or race are law abiding, decent people. The attacks this morning were indiscriminate. The perpetrators are evil through and through. They are a minority of maniacs trying to impose their will on the majority. This is nothing new, we've all grown up with it. If it wasnt the Luftwaffe it was the IRA and if it's not them it's Al-Qaeda; all we can do is get on with our lives as best we can. It's a sad fact, but it's an occupational hazard of living and working in London.
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Post by piccadillypilot on Jul 7, 2005 21:15:52 GMT
They want us all to live by there own distorted views of life. The perpetrators could use the same arguments to justify their actions. |
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Post by yorkie on Jul 7, 2005 23:17:41 GMT
Shame that no one bothers to find out why these people do such things. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ They do it PP because they see us and especially America as bastions of corruption, dens of inquity, havens of greed and harbours of materialism. They want us all to live by there own distorted views of life. There is nothing so deadly as a religious fanatic. If you truly understand why they do it, as you suggest, then you must know them pretty well. |
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Post by igelkotten on Jul 7, 2005 23:24:20 GMT
I can only agree with PP here.
Jumping to conclusions is a sure way to end up in a lot of unecessary grief.
Remember the Oklahoma bombings, where among other things a kindergarten was wiped out? There were lots of people ready to blaim it on "arab muslim terrorism". As it turned out, the perpetrator was a white supremacist. And as the poster banana points out, the Irish have a legacy of bombings in London. Should we wipe out all those "horrible catholics" now?
Purely as a hypothesis, consider the thought that the terror attacks might have been launched by a group that wanted to stir up hatred against muslims, and therefore conduicting them in a manner similar to earlier attacks by groups affiliated with al-Quaida. Sounds unlikely? Yes, it does -but then again, in the late seventies, agents of italian military intelligence in cooperation with neo-fascist groups bombed the central station in Milan, resulting in some eighty dead, trying to shift the blame to leftist groups, in an attempt to move Italy on the path to a fascist-influenced government.
There is no publicly available evidence that ties one group or other to these horrible deeds. Until such is produced, I'd say that it is more pertinent to focus on alleviating the grief and sorrow of the bereaved, and start working on rebuilding the railway. If and when someone responsible for these terrible deeds can be found, then it is time to prosecute them according to law, in an open trial, to show everyone that justice is being made, and nothing left to chance or the vagaries of individuals or shifting policies. Revenge fantasies lead nowhere.
It might also be worthwile to consider that several influential muslim institutions and respected scholars, such as the faculty of the university of Cairo (which is generally considered the most weighty institution today in the interpretation of islamic scripture) has issued statements where they condemn terrorist attacks and methods. Several muslim groups -not least a few mosques here in Sweden with whom I have some contact- have also given large amounts of aid and relief to the victims of terror all over the world, including those in New York and Madrid.
Islam has over one billion adherents in the world. To start calling them all terrorists is akin to calling for the prosecution of all christians for the crimes commited by Cromwell's dictatorship in Britain.
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Post by yorkie on Jul 7, 2005 23:25:46 GMT
If I gave MY opinion on that people would say I was a racist when all it is is pragmatism and common sense. I object to all this PC stuff when these barbarians and criminals can do what they like and I can't say what I want. I totally agree Q8 You can say what you want within reason but you can't expect us to agree with it. As for racism, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... |
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Post by yorkie on Jul 7, 2005 23:26:34 GMT
I can only agree with PP here. Jumping to conclusions is a sure way to end up in a lot of unecessary grief. I'll second that. |
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Post by q8 on Jul 8, 2005 2:49:28 GMT
If you truly understand why they do it, as you suggest, then you must know them pretty well.
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I don't "truly understand" them PP. Nobody does. A twisted mind is beyond understanding. My supposition is based on what you see and hear on the TV/Radio where others have tried to explain what makes them do it. They apparently believe that the Devil is taking over the world aided and abetted by the U.S and the U.K. You must look at it from there side evn if you know that they are wrong and mistaken. Hence my comments. I do not know any of these evil people and if I did they'd be reported immediately to the authorities. I may be a narrow minded old git but I am not an accesorie to murder.
I do NOT condemn all Muslims simply because they are Muslims. The vast majority of them are law-abiding folk like us and share with us condemnation of the actions. I utterly damn and condemn the hate-filled individuals who carry out such atrocities.
If you want to know the truth my views on crime and and terrorism are to the right of Hitler's but I don't impose them on anybody else or expect them to agree. I respect their views and hope that they allow me to have mine.
As for Cromwell he was NOT a Dictator. If you read his biography you'll find that he was in fact quite a jolly man but like me he had strong views. He was NOT a fanatic either but his minions and followers were. The greatest Englishman who ever lived.
Do NOT condemn me for having an opinion I am as much entitled to one as everybody else just as you are rightly entitled to dispute it. There was a quote from someone that said "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" I respect your views so please honour mine.
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Post by chris on Jul 8, 2005 7:30:05 GMT
The quote was made by Voltaire.
What links Cromwell, Hitler, terrorists and everyone is that fact what they do they do it because they believe it's right. Muslims worship that way because it is their religion. Christians worship another because it's their belief that is the right way. Everyone should be entitled to say what they believe and express an opinion, but it can never be justified to kill and injure innocent people. Terrorism can never be never be a "Just War". These people started out like you and me, but somewhere they got mislead; an incident or false rumour that made them think different. Scarily, they're not much different to any other person you might come into contact to.
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Post by piccadillypilot on Jul 8, 2005 8:06:32 GMT
If you truly understand why they do it, as you suggest, then you must know them pretty well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I don't "truly understand" them PP. Sorry oh revered Ancient One, it weren't me wot wrote the above. Suppose for a moment that Hitler's 1940 invasion plans had been successful. .Is it conceivable that you would be in Germany planting bombs to drive them out of the UK? If so they would accuse you of having a twisted mind, of being a barbarous maniac and all the other names that people in the UK use against those who plant bombs here. Make no mistake, we (western Europe and the USA that is) have invaded the rest of the world. The UK and other Europeans started off by building a massive empire by economic, cultural and political means. When that was resisted we sent in gunboats and soldiers and quelled the locals by force. There isn't a country in the world where we haven't sought to exercise influence. Increasing wealth and cheaper travel have given those who don't want us there the opportunity to come here and cause death and destruction. I'm not condoning such violence, but as I said earlier, it's is necessary to understand where it started in order to defeat it. And no, I don't know what the long term answer is that will persuade these small minorities to be at peace with the world around them. |
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Post by Phil on Jul 8, 2005 10:18:26 GMT
If you find out and understand the reason there's a much better chance of solving the problem. You can find out the reason for them but you cannot reason with them |
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Post by Phil on Jul 8, 2005 10:29:39 GMT
I too feel sorry for the vast majority of muslims who utterly condemn these acts, but one fact cannot be denied. You never hear of christians who bomb innocent victims to get their way (ok the IRA mght have had some catholic christians). Nor do you hear of fanatical jews despite all the injustices they have suffered. Nor hindus. Nor Buddhists. Nor sikhs. All the latter may be militant in their own lands but it seems that only muslims believe their god encourages them to massacre the innocent anywhere in the world they choose. NOT ALL MUSLIMS I repeat, but a few seem to interpret their holy book that way.
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Post by chris on Jul 8, 2005 10:37:53 GMT
Extremists muslims are conviniently called "brown stuff". (Pronounced, She-ite)
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 8, 2005 10:39:43 GMT
Extremists muslims are conviniently called "brown stuff". (Pronounced, She-ite) I think you'll find it is shi'ite. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jul 8, 2005 10:40:12 GMT
Extremists muslims are conviniently called "brown stuff". (Pronounced, She-ite) Now that is racist. |
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Post by chris on Jul 8, 2005 10:48:42 GMT
Extremists muslims are conviniently called "brown stuff". (Pronounced, She-ite) Now that is racist. No it's not. It's what they're called. If you translated it into the original language it would mean something else. It is only a coincidence that in English it sounds like an offensive word. "shi'ite" Is it? Sorry if i was wrong, i just remembered it from an RE lesson a while back. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jul 8, 2005 11:00:51 GMT
With DD's permission and for the benefit of our younger posters may I show what we are up against?
In the 1970s there was an IRA terrorist called Bobby Sands who was convicetd of several murders of innocent victims. The could have sentenced him to death but instead sentenced him to life in prison to avoid making him a martyr.
So he went on hunger strike and starved himself to death and became a martyr anyway.
This is the sort of person we are dealing with
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Post by yellowsignal on Jul 8, 2005 11:03:23 GMT
I believe i read somewhere Al Qaeda is mainly sunni arabs.... Sunnis basically hate all other muslems and any other living being that doesnt believe the way they believe. Saddam was a sunni and he oppressed the shi-ites.
sunny vs brown stuff....
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