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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2012 22:24:25 GMT
Had my first S-stock ride today, and whilst I quite like the external appearance of them, they really are not nice to travel on in my opinion. I sat in one of the transverse seats for a Baker Street - Wembley Park journey. I found that I was uncomfortable on the hard seat - I'm no more than average size. The interior was over lit and clinical, in fact the experience was just like traveling on a modern bus.
I accept that the Met has had it's moneys worth from the A-stock, and it cannot run forever etc, but seriously would not want to commute on one of these S-stock horrors every day. In contrast, I enjoyed a nice, warm and comfortable ride from Rayner's Lane to Euston Square in A-stock comfort.
A big let-down, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2012 22:58:21 GMT
Yay! Someone agrees with me! I agree, I think they are damn uncomfortable compared to the A stock, and are alot like trams really.
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Post by alfie on Jan 16, 2012 23:01:45 GMT
I agree with the overlit and clinical bit, just like the 09 stock. See no point in longtiduinal seats either. But they are comfy.
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Post by alex92ts on Jan 16, 2012 23:20:03 GMT
Maybe not as comfy as the A-stock, but I don't the seats are bad. Might be different travelling from Amersham to Aldgate though lol.
I do love the exterior design - and I don't often like designs for the modern trains and buses. I agree the interior is clinical, but I guess with all the safety regulations (which are mostly a good thing), there isn't many ways around it. I also find the doors too noisy.
I'm glad that it is still possible to sit down and look out the window without straining my neck, especially with the countryside it goes through.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2012 23:20:04 GMT
Yay! Someone agrees with me! I agree, I think they are damn uncomfortable compared to the A stock, and are alot like trams really. Yes, spot on, just like a tram. They look and feel very cheap and nasty inside. I wonder if people said similar things about the A-stock when the loco-hauled Dreadnoughts came off in the early 1960s |
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Post by redsetter on Jan 16, 2012 23:34:03 GMT
the seating and layout is atrocious,there's no separation between carriages either.these look like a bendy bus on rail and were conceived around the same time.
while the bendy bus once heralded has made an exit, these are arriving. the lesson of the hop on-off bus has been learned,sadly the same hasn't been from the A stock in seating on a one hour plus journey.
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Post by Alight on Jan 16, 2012 23:48:41 GMT
I have to agree with the comments so far. Although the S stock has many advantages (such as the approved accessibility, air-conditioning, inter-car gangways and CIS), I find the the overall journey experience rather uncomfortable, mainly due to its brightness (the yellow grab-poles not helping matters) and lack of comfort. The moquette design isn't bad, however. The door-opening alarms are extremely irritating (always thought this since the Euston Square gardens mock-up!) and, while I realise they need an alarm to meet modern standards, I wish they would have used the same sound as they use on the 2009 stock.
Since they have a clear differentiation between S7s and S8s, I could never understand why the decision was taken to include longitudinal seats. Yes, we need longitudinal tip-up seats in some parts, but the areas which include transverse 'ought to be transverse either side (there would still be adequate standing space in between). The S7s can have as much longitudinal as they like (though a bit of transverse on the S7s wouldn't hurt as there would still be plenty of room compared with a C stock).
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 16, 2012 23:52:15 GMT
The tram comment is spot on. Its not a design, rather it seems a collection of parts.
Bits that really prove it isn't LT are the different sized window in the MS car and the 4' double door at the cab end.
What really really irritates me though is that it won't change; that we're stuck with it all for the next 35 years.
Its funny, the gulf between what designers want to design, and what people feel comfortable in.
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Post by cooperman on Jan 17, 2012 1:14:54 GMT
Maybe not as comfy as the A-stock, but I don't the seats are bad. Might be different travelling from Amersham to Aldgate though lol. I can safely say the 'S' stock is rubbish traveling up the North end of the Met. Narrow seats, food smells from other passengers. The Psycho passenger element ( Free to roam the entire train without any address ). Oh.. and no escape from the for mentioned yob culture. Yet again designed by someone who doesn't have a clue of the requirements of the Commuter. HTH Coops |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 4:51:01 GMT
I like S Stock - there is nothing wrong with bright interior, and I much prefer train with aircon and decent air to A Stock where air more often than not has unpleasant stench in it.
Seats? My rear never complained in 1.5 years.
I also tend to travel at the very end of the train and S Stock finally solved the frequent problem of driver forgetting to unlock last set of doors (which in peak hours usually meant that I'd have to stay on for one more stop because getting to the next set of doors in crammed A Stock with its narrow passages is almost impossible).
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Post by egduf on Jan 17, 2012 13:53:56 GMT
I quite like S stock and don't mind the seating, but:
a) Not enough handrails when you stand
b) The ones that are there are badly designed and hard to hold onto (I'm 5'7", so what it's like for other heights I don't know)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 14:50:56 GMT
I feel the handstraps like on 378's should be added to all surface stock to combat the problem of unreachable grab poles
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Jan 17, 2012 17:33:49 GMT
The S Stock are way better than the A Stock. Much smoother ride. The interior is great. No way is it too clinical or overlit. The A Stock is much more overlit with bare tube bulbs. The exterior is great as well. It's just what the Met needs. I have to say I am now actually disappointed if an A Stock pulls into the station and I know it sounds sad but I now normally just wait for the next S Stock. In addition to this I usually use the Met in the rush hour and not many people are standing I have to say!  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 17, 2012 18:07:09 GMT
I'm the opposite entirely. I wait for A stock if possible. The S stock interior is depressing, a horrid yellow like unloved teeth. The ride is actually quite poor for new stock as the tiny wheels negate the new suspension. The A stock ride has improved with track replacement and there is less of a tram feel about it.
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Post by causton on Jan 17, 2012 18:26:43 GMT
We'll have to agree to disagree - I find the A stock too bouncy, smelling foul (don't know if that's just the cleaners putting a bit less effort in though!) and falling apart (the time I almost fell through an A stock seat and into the compartment below...!). Sure, the S stock's not perfect, but I wouldn't call it a poor relation to the A stock by any means |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 18:27:59 GMT
I agree in regard to the interior being clinical but as someone else said with modern H&S etc this is what we end up with. Same with the new stock on the Vic.
I have to take issue with metmans comment on the ride quality though - I think the ride quality on the S is far superior than that of the A Stock. The bouncy castle effect from the A Stock as you go from Finchley Rd up towards Wembley is awful!
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Jan 17, 2012 20:52:13 GMT
Agree the S Stock is a million times smoother than the A Stock. Must be one of the smoothest rides on the entire underground. The A Stock are horrible!
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 17, 2012 20:59:21 GMT
No way! The S stock ride is better than the A stock, but I don't find it that much smoother. Really disappointed actually, the least I was hoping for was a smooth ride!
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Post by superteacher on Jan 17, 2012 21:04:30 GMT
The S stock is far smoother, but the track condition prevents it from being as smooth as it could be. I suspect a lot of the negative comments in this thread are borne out from nostalgia for the A stock.
I don't find the seats uncomfortable at all.
My only gripe is that the heating is not powerful enough, and a cold wind blows through the whole train.
The A stock has draught screens - one of the positives of the old stock. They also feel more cosy.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 17, 2012 21:06:35 GMT
The seats are ok actually. Not as cosy as the A stock but there are worse out there and will be worse to follow. I think you are correct about the heating and its reasons.
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Post by Alight on Jan 17, 2012 21:08:06 GMT
As regards the A stock comparison, clearly the A stock is going to be knackered compared with the S stock due to its age! However, perhaps they could have made the S8 interior more closely resemble the A stock interior? An A stock with inter-car gangways, CIS, door alarms, air conditioning and improved accessibility!
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Post by superteacher on Jan 17, 2012 21:13:10 GMT
As regards the A stock comparison, clearly the A stock is going to be knackered compared with the S stock due to its age! However, perhaps they could have made the S8 interior more closely resemble the A stock interior? An A stock with inter-car gangways, CIS, door alarms, air conditioning and improved accessibility! Hmmm, not far off another A stock refurb! ;D |
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Post by melikepie on Jan 17, 2012 21:31:42 GMT
I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with A Stock, C Stock or D Stock comments in this.
I had my first experience with the S Stock last Saturday. Yes the seats are rather stiff but it is actually the air-conditioning that annoys me.
Why is it always on on a cold winter's day? One purpose of the LU is to keep warm at times.
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Jan 17, 2012 21:32:03 GMT
Looking at these ideas I'm going to start a new thread |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 17, 2012 21:38:02 GMT
I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with A Stock, C Stock or D Stock comments in this. I had my first experience with the S Stock last Saturday. Yes the seats are rather stiff but it is actually the air-conditioning that annoys me. Why is it always on on a cold winter's day? One purpose of the LU is to keep warm at times. It is supposed to be climate controlled i.e. automatic, but as I posted earlier, I don't think the heaters are effective enough. |
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Post by tecchy on Jan 17, 2012 21:40:51 GMT
It is climate controlled. The Air Con takes ages/ struggles to heat up the train from being cool, so additional electric heaters are at the sides of the interior to make it heat up quicker. I have yet to find out what is classed as cold and hot and when the heaters/ air con turn themselves on.
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Post by superteacher on Jan 17, 2012 21:42:48 GMT
It is climate controlled. The Air Con takes ages/ struggles to heat up the train from being cool, so additional electric heaters are at the sides of the interior to make it heat up quicker. I have yet to find out what is classed as cold and hot and when the heaters/ air con turn themselves on. Hopefully the trains will retain more of the heat once they switch them to full passenger open mode, rather than just auto close after 45 seconds. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 10:17:38 GMT
I don't think the seats are quite as comfortable on the S stock, but I certainly don't miss the bouncing around Wembley Park, and I always felt that the heating on the A stock was badly positioned. The number of times I felt far too hot on the A stock, especially when having to sit over a heater, overwhelmed the times when it was welcome!
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 18, 2012 12:42:42 GMT
I think that is because under the seat risers by the doors the is the door motors and heaters cannot be placed there. The pyrobar heaters elsewhere are very powerful!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 0:19:38 GMT
Having ridden on the S stock a few times (including a long haul from Chesham to Finchley Road), I definitely consider them an improvement. It is sad to see the days of the wide transverse seats go, but for an underground line, they just make so little sense.
The S8s provide enough transverse seats to cater for those that want them, but I think people sometimes forget that one of the biggest motivations behind the new stock apart from the condition of the old trains is a capacity increase. People criticising the seamless gangway connections for 'not understanding what the commuter needs' should stop and consider how many extra people will fit in that gap, and more than that, the ability to move throughout the cars to fill available space up is very useful. Countless times do I see people unable to board busy trains (most often tube stock though) because daft passengers refuse to move all the way up to the end of the carriage, leaving loads of unused standing space.
The C stock design with four sets of doors does go some way to accommodate this to be fair, but looking at how successful the lack of gangways is on 378s for squeezing as many passengers into 4-car trains as possible, it clearly does work.
LUL trains shouldn't really be designed to best serve the needs of the few off-peak travellers who want to maximise their comfort. They should be designed with their most important task in mind, transporting the greatest number of passengers in peak-time. The longer cars, longitudinal seating, and gangway connections of the S stock go a long way to providing that extra capacity. When the S7s eventually replace the Cs and Ds, the performance increase should also benefit journey times, and thus improve timetables.
As much as people want the A stocks to stick around, take the rose-tinted glasses off, the S stock does a very good job of serving several urgent needs. They aren't particularly loud either through track noise or traction motor noise, the A/C isn't that intrusive when you consider how loud A60 Stock compressors are, the seats serve just fine for their purpose, and 'clinical' as the interior is, that's the style these days, I actually quite like it.
The only thing I don't get are the design discrepencies from the 2009 stock, like as was previously mentioned the door alarms. (Still, better than the 378s, as you can actually hear the door close alarms on an S stock!) The DVA also seems different to me?
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