a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
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Post by a60 on Apr 29, 2016 12:01:57 GMT
Probably will continue to stable there.
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Post by trt on Apr 29, 2016 13:58:38 GMT
Watford Met is only closing to passengers.
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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Post by towerman on Apr 29, 2016 15:35:50 GMT
Oh I thought that the extension was branching off north of Croxley & the track to Watford was being lifted.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 29, 2016 15:46:55 GMT
Oh I thought that the extension was branching off north of Croxley. Yes it is & the track to Watford was being lifted. No it isn't. Or at least that is my understanding. Watford Met will become a stabling depot.
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Post by philthetube on Apr 29, 2016 16:31:35 GMT
The ATP on Metropolitan for Chiltern post resignalling is, I understand, intended to retain tripcock/trianstip. Though if it gets to the situation where Tripcocks are only being kept for Chiltern (LU having migrated to a replacement system) then Chiltern / the rolling stock owners might also retro fit the LU system to avoid paying LU to keep the Tripcock system (for which LU would otherwise have scrapped) in good order. I cannot see that happening because of the Chiltern fleet fleet size, and I don't think Chiltern would want to have a dedicated Aylesbury service fleet as that would reduce their operating flexibility. More likely could be the fitting or the network rail protection system, which would reduce Chiltern maintenance and replacement costs, and potentially make it easier to operate other stocks on the route. I also suspect that trainstops are more expensive to maintain than other systems as they have moving parts.
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Post by patrickb on Apr 29, 2016 18:30:26 GMT
Oh I thought that the extension was branching off north of Croxley. Yes it is & the track to Watford was being lifted. No it isn't. Or at least that is my understanding. Watford Met will become a stabling depot. Will the Island Platform be removed in the process? The space has the potential to become an extra two stabling roads.
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Post by piccboy on Apr 30, 2016 1:29:50 GMT
Yes it is No it isn't. Or at least that is my understanding. Watford Met will become a stabling depot. Will the Island Platform be removed in the process? The space has the potential to become an extra two stabling roads. The station building at Watford is Grade 2 listed, but I am not sure of the platforms, but that could have some bearing on the matter.
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Post by alpinejohn on Apr 30, 2016 7:00:26 GMT
It's a real shame that LUL do not have the vision to see the potential value of Watford as a proper base for their Heritage fleet. Sadly rarely moved kit just collecting dust tends to seize up over time, eventually requiring expensive renovation or like some of the Mk1 Jubilee cars simply scrapping. An occasional run over the north curve to Chesham would be a great way to keep heritage stock active, generate extra income from the heritage fleet, and free up space at Acton which is crammed to the gunnels. Indeed running a few peak hour shuttle trips would probably remove much of the local closure opposition.
Anyone who has visited the amazing oxford road building up at the Quainton Road Railway centre can get an idea of what could be done at Watford. With regular tube connections it even has the potential to become a major all day long tourist attraction in its own right.
Obviously stabling is the main driver for LUL decisions, but a quick look at Google earth shows the fence-lines on the run in beyond the River Gade are pretty generous - suggesting LUL may already own enough land to build perfect stabling alongside the existing tracks into Watford. Sadly it seems the bean counters will win and a listed building will be left to slowly rot a bit like the old Croxley stations.
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 30, 2016 7:12:51 GMT
It's a real shame that LUL do not have the vision to see the potential value of Watford as a proper base for their Heritage fleet. Sadly rarely moved kit just collecting dust tends to seize up over time, eventually requiring expensive renovation or like some of the Mk1 Jubilee cars simply scrapping. An occasional run over the north curve to Chesham would be a great way to keep heritage stock active, generate extra income from the heritage fleet, and free up space at Acton which is crammed to the gunnels. Indeed running a few peak hour shuttle trips would probably remove much of the local closure opposition. Anyone who has visited the amazing oxford road building up at the Quainton Road Railway centre can get an idea of what could be done at Watford. With regular tube connections it even has the potential to become a major all day long tourist attraction in its own right. Obviously stabling is the main driver for LUL decisions, but a quick look at Google earth shows the fence-lines on the run in beyond the River Gade are pretty generous - suggesting LUL may already own enough land to build perfect stabling alongside the existing tracks into Watford. Sadly it seems the bean counters will win and a listed building will be left to slowly rot a bit like the old Croxley stations. Keeping anything of value in the open would be a serious risk from vandals and souvenir hunters. Preserved stock needs to kept in a controlled environment to keep it in good condition and this costs a lot of money so it doesn't come down to bean counting.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 30, 2016 7:22:41 GMT
Moreover, unless the heritage stock were converted to be compatible with the signalling used on the Met, it would be unable to run even as far as Croxley, but would be confined to the branch. And with no other rail service to Watford Met it would not be easy for visitors to get to it.
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Post by trt on Apr 30, 2016 8:55:35 GMT
The thought of e.g. Sarah Siddons leaving from Watford Junction's 1980s red brick and bronze glass building and 1990s smoked glass waiting rooms rather than Watford Met's 1925 glass and iron canopies and arts and crafts styling makes me cringe.
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Post by Chris M on Apr 30, 2016 9:54:54 GMT
Will the Island Platform be removed in the process? The space has the potential to become an extra two stabling roads. The station building at Watford is Grade 2 listed, but I am not sure of the platforms, but that could have some bearing on the matter. The platforms are included in the listing so I think demolition is unlikely.
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Post by theblackferret on Apr 30, 2016 15:52:07 GMT
The latest I got from wiki-page last amended Nov 2015: watfordmetHas anybody got later TfL or other official info on Watford Met closure? Incidentally, the save campaign on twitter, last entry is April 20.
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Post by patrickb on Apr 30, 2016 16:03:15 GMT
The station building at Watford is Grade 2 listed, but I am not sure of the platforms, but that could have some bearing on the matter. The platforms are included in the listing so I think demolition is unlikely. 'Twill make a perfect Messroom with Tea Facilities for T Op's. Haha But seriously, what will happen to the platforms and building? Will the lot be neglected and in time see a buildup of vegetation and overgrown weeds. Funny how the tables have turned. As for Heritage Trains at Watford. Nice idea but how are you going to protect Trains from the elements and as crusty54 pointed out, Vandals and the sort.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Apr 30, 2016 17:51:08 GMT
I suppose it would depend on how many trains are envisaged to stable there, what planning approval could be gained for demolition of part of a listed structure, what the upkeep of it would be otherwise, whether the platforms allow other benefits (such as for cleaning staff), etc etc. Am I right in thinking that currently 5 trains can stable at Watford? Given the amount of track simplification going on across the network, and the general tightness of money for a lot of projects, surely big reconfiguration involving demolition and extra tracks is unlikely?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 19:26:05 GMT
It seems to me that the stabling of trains at Watford Met is a given because where else could they go
There will be pressure from (ex) Watford Met users to have at least a peak service as otherwise passengers will be walking past empty trains to reach Cassiobridge or the Watford LO stations and the current W30 bus that currently gets workers to the Holywell estate from the Watford Stations will need to be 'redesigned' to get passengers from Cassiobury to the train stations.
This all needs to be sorted out well before any decisions are taken on any future alternative use for Watford Met.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Apr 30, 2016 19:32:31 GMT
It seems to me that the stabling of trains at Watford Met is a given because where else could they go There will be pressure from (ex) Watford Met users to have at least a peak service as otherwise passengers will be walking past empty trains to reach Cassiobridge or the Watford LO stations and the current W30 bus that currently gets workers to the Holywell estate from the Watford Stations will need to be 'redesigned' to get passengers from Cassiobury to the train stations. This all needs to be sorted out well before any decisions are taken on any future alternative use for Watford Met. From what I've read it's already been sorted out. Watford will close to passengers. It'll be sidings. A bus route is far more easily reconfigured as opposed to a train timetable.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Apr 30, 2016 20:34:36 GMT
This is tangential to the conversation so far, but as any future use of Watford Met is involved with it....
... What actually are the plans for future S stock stabling? MLX introduced 1 extra train, 59 total S8. If Watford can hold 5, where else is loosing accommodation that needs replacement?
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Post by philthetube on May 1, 2016 7:51:05 GMT
Four Trains currently stable at Watford, the fith will be needed at the north end of the line to start up the morning service.
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Post by crusty54 on May 1, 2016 9:44:18 GMT
The Jubilee trains are being moved out of Neasden to create more space for S stock but even more is needed as they ordered additional trains to step up frequencies.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on May 1, 2016 16:54:53 GMT
The Jubilee trains are being moved out of Neasden to create more space for S stock but even more is needed as they ordered additional trains to step up frequencies. Where are the Jubilee line trains being moved to and what is the source of your information ?
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Post by crusty54 on May 1, 2016 17:24:21 GMT
Stratford and sidings. Source Depot Management at Neasden.
This will also make new signalling simpler as it won't have to overlap with the Jubilee system.
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Post by melikepie on May 1, 2016 19:08:20 GMT
Can Stratford cope with the influx of trains?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 19:14:44 GMT
The Jubilee trains are being moved out of Neasden to create more space for S stock but even more is needed as they ordered additional trains to step up frequencies. Where are the Jubilee line trains being moved to and what is the source of your information ? Sorry, I would get a new source if I were you ... they have this backwards. The current intention is to put a few extra Jubilee line trains into Neasden (I think it is +2 but not certain). The other new Jubilee trains will go into Stratford with a couple of roads being made available by the removal of the TBTC fit-out shed. This will also make new signalling simpler as it won't have to overlap with the Jubilee system. Also not correct. The new 4LM signalling will need to co-exist with the Jubilee signalling. Design work is underway at the moment.
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Post by br7mt on May 2, 2016 15:28:47 GMT
I believe a pit road is also going to be secured at Neasden for Jubilee Line maintenance. The additional Jubilee trains will also be accommodated by outstabling.
Regards,
Dan
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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Post by towerman on May 6, 2016 10:46:24 GMT
Can Stratford cope with the influx of trains? You can have north & south sdgs at Stanmore and there is about 5 or 6 rds missing at SMD btween 4 & 34rds.There is probably enough room to do something with the P.Way sdgs at the rear of the maintenance shed.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on May 6, 2016 12:32:01 GMT
Can Stratford cope with the influx of trains? You can have north & south sdgs at Stanmore and there is about 5 or 6 rds missing at SMD btween 4 & 34rds.There is probably enough room to do something with the P.Way sdgs at the rear of the maintenance shed. No PW sidings at SMD, it was a test track at one time,the head shunt is not long enough for a 7 car train.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on May 6, 2016 15:22:00 GMT
You can have north & south sdgs at Stanmore and there is about 5 or 6 rds missing at SMD btween 4 & 34rds.There is probably enough room to do something with the P.Way sdgs at the rear of the maintenance shed. No PW sidings at SMD, it was a test track at one time,the head shunt is not long enough for a 7 car train. Could always go the other side of the shed if there's enough room.
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Post by phil on May 6, 2016 16:59:17 GMT
It seems to me that the stabling of trains at Watford Met is a given because where else could they go There will be pressure from (ex) Watford Met users to have at least a peak service as otherwise passengers will be walking past empty trains to reach Cassiobridge or the Watford LO stations and the current W30 bus that currently gets workers to the Holywell estate from the Watford Stations will need to be 'redesigned' to get passengers from Cassiobury to the train stations. This all needs to be sorted out well before any decisions are taken on any future alternative use for Watford Met. From what I've read it's already been sorted out. Watford will close to passengers. It'll be sidings. A bus route is far more easily reconfigured as opposed to a train timetable. IIRC a key part of getting the extension through the planning process was to keep costs as low as possible as it was a very close call as to whether the BCR would be sufficient to allow the project to go ahead. Thus as occurred with Ebsfleet International (whose security scanning gear, etc was simply transferred from the redundant Waterloo international), the pan is for much of the station furniture (ticket gates, machines, etc) at the current Watford terminus to be transferred to the intermediate stations on the extension. Again, as with Ebsfleet / Waterloo, this might mean a short delay between Watford (Met) closing and the intermediate stations opening with services running non stop to Watford High Street for a few days. As a result the use of the existing Watford terminus (other than in extreme emergencies) will not happen, however much people complain. People need to remember the choice facing the promoters was quite simple* - no extension and keep Watford Met or close Watford Met and build the extension. Anything else (while obviously possible physically) was not financially acceptable. * In exactly the same way that in Scotland the choice was between no railway or a single track one with the minimum of double track necessary for a 30minute service. Anything other than the later decimated the BCR such that the end result would have been nothing at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 17:12:58 GMT
Can Stratford cope with the influx of trains? You can have north & south sdgs at Stanmore and there is about 5 or 6 rds missing at SMD btween 4 & 34rds.There is probably enough room to do something with the P.Way sdgs at the rear of the maintenance shed. The construction of additional sidings at Stanmore, perhaps with property on top as per Wood Lane, was considered, argued for and then discounted earlier in the project.
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