kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Nov 22, 2011 22:50:28 GMT
Hi all again Watching the brand new Central Line DEV I noticed that Holland Park Station does not appear to have been refurbised. I found this strange as the stations either side of it had. Is there a reason for this?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 23:15:20 GMT
It was in the pipeline, but the collapse of Metronet scuppered the plans! Just missed out really - as have many other "Metronet" stations. Worse still (wandering off topic) Chiswick Park was only partly done - I think the exterior brick work was smartened up and the platforms were closed one at a time for a while (WB 15/10/06 to 15/11/06 and EB 16/11/06 to 13/12/06). Then, abandoned ....  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 23:54:06 GMT
Im glad Holland Park hasnt been ruined by that awful white cladding etc
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 1:18:02 GMT
www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/metro/17100.aspx"Saving more than £300m by working more efficiently on upgrades and schemes, paring back cosmetic works at stations and deferring non-essential works " I always love the "we're saving X by working more efficiently" euphemism - it begs the question "why was the work planned less efficiently in the first place" - but the reality is that it usually means extensive "descoping" of works to the extent that they remain unfinished or that opportunities for cost-effective wins, for example by completing more extensive work in the same area at the same time, are missed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 9:53:08 GMT
if you think how much money was wasted pointlessly refurbishing some stations and trying to replicate... in some cases poorly, the Yerkes stations, you do tend to wonder who authorised the workmanship to be signed off. I don't think Yerkes or even Leslie Green would be too happy with the work at some of the stations that have been refurbished in a pastiche style.
Yes, the Central London Railway was not a Yerkes tube, but I was certainly not impressed with Lancaster Gate. Holland Park still retains some original features, the biscuit coloured tiles date from about 1948. Always found the station to be a bit dreary...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 12:02:50 GMT
I'm glad this one hasn't been refurbished, as that horrid white vent thing or whatever it is they put in stations is gastly, who on earth commissioned that?
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 23, 2011 12:04:29 GMT
www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/metro/17100.aspx"Saving more than £300m by working more efficiently on upgrades and schemes, paring back cosmetic works at stations and deferring non-essential works " I always love the "we're saving X by working more efficiently" euphemism - it begs the question "why was the work planned less efficiently in the first place" - but the reality is that it usually means extensive "descoping" of works to the extent that they remain unfinished or that opportunities for cost-effective wins, for example by completing more extensive work in the same area at the same time, are missed. The truth really is that £millions could be saved by working more efficiently, LUL has long been inefficient in terms of co-ordination of works, track access planning etc etc. Unless things have changed in the last few years there is no overall control of works or proper planning. I will not repeat in this forum some of the comments I heard from contract professionals when I was involved in station refurbs years ago but they were not nice and I have to say that I agreed with most of them. The real problem was always the lack of communication between the various departments but that has been complicated by the ever increasing amount of H&S legislation, the wholesale privatisation of all engineering and the sub, sub contracting environment. As for signing off works one wondered at times if that was purely a paper exercise based upon a sample of badly completed works that 'slipped' through the net. |
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Post by malcolmffc on Nov 23, 2011 12:56:58 GMT
if you think how much money was wasted pointlessly refurbishing some stations and trying to replicate... in some cases poorly, the Yerkes stations, you do tend to wonder who authorised the workmanship to be signed off. I don't think Yerkes or even Leslie Green would be too happy with the work at some of the stations that have been refurbished in a pastiche style. Yes, the Central London Railway was not a Yerkes tube, but I was certainly not impressed with Lancaster Gate. Holland Park still retains some original features, the biscuit coloured tiles date from about 1948. Always found the station to be a bit dreary... The non-refurbished Central Line stations are grubby and reflect badly on the tube and London as a whole. It's a such a shame Holland Park wasn't done- it now sticks out like a sore thumb when travelling through the central section of the Central line. Personally, I think the "vents" above the platform friezes at refurbished stations look really good - modern, but unobtrusive. |
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Nov 23, 2011 16:41:55 GMT
Have to agree with malcomffc on this one. Holland Park Station just looks dirty. It is in desperate need of a refurbishment. Although some of you like the traditional look of it, if it is left it will just grow more dirty and look more grubby. Maybe LU should relook at there station refurb model and change it a bit to help keep the stations looking traditional.
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Post by North End on Nov 23, 2011 16:52:56 GMT
Have to agree with malcomffc on this one. Holland Park Station just looks dirty. It is in desperate need of a refurbishment. Although some of you like the traditional look of it, if it is left it will just grow more dirty and look more grubby. Maybe LU should relook at there station refurb model and change it a bit to help keep the stations looking traditional. I wouldn't say it is in desparate need of refurbishment. The fact is that most people only spend a couple of minutes on stations. Especially in the current climate of cost awareness, this work is simply not a priority. Everyone needs to be more realistic about the money that is available and what can be done, we can't want loads of cosmetic work taking place and at the same time complain that fares keep rising. Stations work is not cheap, it's a very inefficient setup due to the way most work takes place overnight. Weekend and long-term closures can give a bit more value for money, but is it really worth weeks or months of disruption just to get some new wall tiles and help points? |
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 23, 2011 19:59:27 GMT
Maybe Holland Park is kept as a heritage station showing how horrible the Tube looked in times of economic downturn |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 20:25:33 GMT
if you think how much money was wasted pointlessly refurbishing some stations and trying to replicate... in some cases poorly, the Yerkes stations, you do tend to wonder who authorised the workmanship to be signed off. I don't think Yerkes or even Leslie Green would be too happy with the work at some of the stations that have been refurbished in a pastiche style. Yes, the Central London Railway was not a Yerkes tube, but I was certainly not impressed with Lancaster Gate. Holland Park still retains some original features, the biscuit coloured tiles date from about 1948. Always found the station to be a bit dreary... The non-refurbished Central Line stations are grubby and reflect badly on the tube and London as a whole. It's a such a shame Holland Park wasn't done- it now sticks out like a sore thumb when travelling through the central section of the Central line. Personally, I think the "vents" above the platform friezes at refurbished stations look really good - modern, but unobtrusive. Unobtrusive?! You havnt been to the Northern line platforms at KXSP before then! Maybe a deep clean will do for Holland Park |
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Post by edwin on Nov 24, 2011 2:19:02 GMT
if you think how much money was wasted pointlessly refurbishing some stations and trying to replicate... in some cases poorly, the Yerkes stations, you do tend to wonder who authorised the workmanship to be signed off. I don't think Yerkes or even Leslie Green would be too happy with the work at some of the stations that have been refurbished in a pastiche style. Putting a pastiche style, or a replica, is far better than ripping it out and replacing it with something hideous which is what they did in the 80s station refurbs. Who an earth decided that the colour combination of blood red, beige, dark green and dark blue look nice together in the case of Piccadilly Circus, for instance? If you look at a station like Russell Square the refurb needed to be done, the old Yerkes tiles were chipped and tatty looking. The replicas look far nicer. |
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 24, 2011 6:04:10 GMT
if you think how much money was wasted pointlessly refurbishing some stations and trying to replicate... in some cases poorly, the Yerkes stations, you do tend to wonder who authorised the workmanship to be signed off. I don't think Yerkes or even Leslie Green would be too happy with the work at some of the stations that have been refurbished in a pastiche style. Putting a pastiche style, or a replica, is far better than ripping it out and replacing it with something hideous which is what they did in the 80s station refurbs. Who an earth decided that the colour combination of blood red, beige, dark green and dark blue look nice together in the case of Piccadilly Circus, for instance? If you look at a station like Russell Square the refurb needed to be done, the old Yerkes tiles were chipped and tatty looking. The replicas look far nicer. Actually at the time that Picc Circus was done I didn't like it but it grew on me over the years and I now see it as iconic, it ought to be listed if it isn't already! Many of the 80s refurbs were not great, for instance I never liked Oxford Circus or Tottenham Court Road, the latter will no doubt get done again under CrossRail as the Central line is heavily impacted by it although I don't know if the whole station will get a decent makeover. |
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Post by malcolmffc on Nov 24, 2011 7:15:44 GMT
I would love to see Picc Circus retiled too.
Passengers may only be in a station for a few minutes, but a grubby, worn down station gives an impression of a system that doesn't take pride in its appearance. This feeds through to passengers who are then less likely to treat the system well (feets on seats, and far worse etc)
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Post by v52gc on Nov 24, 2011 10:07:31 GMT
They've destroyed the look of Pic Circus with the new advert frames. Like at most station they completely ignore the framing done by the tiles.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 12:55:53 GMT
Always found the station to be a bit dreary... I like Holland Park, its got alot of character, but I agree is a bit dreary. One of the things lost during these refurbs is the old raw urban atmosphere the stations used to have. Holland Park is a the last remaining on the central line with like this. The old tungsten lighting, the old signage in huge font etc. I think all the other stations on the central are far too clinical. All HOP needs is repairs to a few areas where water ingress seems to have damaged a few tiles, some cleaning and basic maintenance and it would probably look quite nice. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 15:14:50 GMT
What do people here think of Bethnal Green, as that retains its 'traditional look', and doesn't look that 'grubby'.
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Post by ruislip on Nov 24, 2011 16:30:05 GMT
If I used Holland Park as much as I did Queensway and Lancaster Gate "back in the day", I may have fallen in love with its lifts like I did at the other two stations.
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Nov 24, 2011 19:02:16 GMT
I thought Bethnal Green had been refurbished recently?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 19:06:18 GMT
I thought Bethnal Green had been refurbished recently? Yes - but in a style that repeated its previous 'heritage' appearance. |
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Post by edwin on Nov 26, 2011 1:30:53 GMT
^^It was shoddily done. The tiles are all wonky and uneven in several places, so much so you can tell from inside a passing train...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 9:51:54 GMT
Yea I'd agree, my favourite 'underground' station on the Central Line has to be Gants Hill
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 26, 2011 10:00:33 GMT
Yea I'd agree, my favourite 'underground' station on the Central Line has to be Gants Hill Because of the Russian architecture? |
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Post by edwin on Nov 27, 2011 1:43:37 GMT
^^Soviet Metro stations were heavily influenced by deep level LU stations in the first place.
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 27, 2011 9:19:32 GMT
Because LT engineers had some time to visit Moscow, to help them with the Metro. Before the Cold War began, obviously.
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Post by jardine01 on Dec 4, 2011 11:03:17 GMT
Holland Park might not need a major refurb but it does need a bit of TLC. maybe a lic of paint on the ceilings and maybe some new lighting the station does look quite dull. It will probably get refurbished eventually when some money comes!
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Dec 4, 2011 13:39:06 GMT
As long as they don't ruin the atmosphere, which has been done at some stations. Or they can preserve Holland Park to show to people what should never, ever happen again. (massive cost cutting)
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Post by Geoffram on Dec 5, 2011 5:25:09 GMT
Here's a question: why did Holland Park end up with the biscuit tiling that was so prevalent towards the end of the 1930s? St Paul's probably acquired them because escalators were fitted to the station, but Holland Park hasn't had any structural changes to it since it was first built. Lancaster Gate, also unchanged structurally, survived with its original white CLR tiling until comparatively recently. I got my head bitten off on this forum once, because I dared to suggest that I never found biscuit a particularly interesting finish to otherwise interesting station builds (e.g. the great bronze lighting columns on the escalators).
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Post by Chris M on Dec 5, 2011 9:14:22 GMT
As long as they don't ruin the atmosphere, which has been done at some stations. Or they can preserve Holland Park to show to people what should never, ever happen again. (massive cost cutting) Given how many examples of the follies of cost-cutting on transport (and infrastructure more generally) projects this country is littered with I don't think it will make a bit of difference. Sadly. |
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