metman
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Post by metman on Dec 29, 2011 10:49:39 GMT
Returning to the topic.....
How do do reversing arrangements at Baker Street seem to work under the new timetable. There have been examples of Baker Street to Aldgate shutdowns recently for engineering works. Can the 3 platforms cope ok with reversing the service?
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Post by andypurk on Dec 29, 2011 11:56:55 GMT
Of course it looks insulting, especially as there is no smiley at the end of the sentence. Try looking at the sentence from the eyes of someone who broke up with their ex-wife, partly because of her excessive drinking. Why? Do they charge cheaper fares when there is a strike on, when there are engineering works or when there are severe delays leading to a thining of the service? Peak fares are there as a disincentive to leisure travellers to travel during peak periods, not as a money making scheme for the three days of the week between Christmas and New Year. I was going to bring up Bank Holiday parking as well, as an example of something which is much worse than TfL charging peak rates for travel during peak periods. I notice that you've ignored my point about Chiltern running extra peak services, so there is an enhanced peak service on the outer part of the Met line this week. Well no offence was intended. Clearly I've hit a bit of a raw nerve, but if I worried whether everything I ever said would offend someone, I probably would end up not ever speaking again.  But I'm sorry to hear that you went through a bad personal situation. Thanks, I try not to get upset by it. But they do make it clear, if you ask for the information. As someone else said earlier in the thread, this was never a problem with paper tickets as you would only be sold the peak ticket travelling at the time and as someone else mentioned, it is also in the Festival Services leaflet. However, on the Met line, in whose section this thread is, the fares are set with both LU and Chiltern services in mind. As there is a enhanced Saturday service running on the combination of the two, the peak fares can be justified. The same applies to the C2C services from Upminster - London. On the rest of the network there will be little difference in the time taken for a journey, so the difference in frequencies won't matter for those needing to travel in the peak. What may differ is the level of crowding if everyone was allowed on the morning peak trains with off-peak tickets. Would you want the extra complication of charging different fares on the Met (from Harrow-on-the-Hill and northwards) for those days? To a Moderator, I think that the posts of this discussion should be moved to a thread in a more general area. |
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Dec 29, 2011 12:17:27 GMT
To a Moderator, I think that the posts of this discussion should be moved to a thread in a more general area.
DD forum members are VERY good at thread drift  and although you are right in principle this one (IOHO) never went far enough to get out the scissors  . Close call either way . |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 29, 2011 13:52:56 GMT
I'll just kill this discussion on peak fares so the tread can return to the relevant topic. The TFL leaflet on travel on the festive period can be found here: www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/festive-leaflet.pdfTrue reference is made to a "Saturday Service", but the fares and tickets section on page 21 of the same leaflet states "Normal fares and ticketing arrangements apply over the Christmas and New Year periods..... There are no refunds or extensions to tickets spanning Christmas and New Year as a result of reduced services" Sure you can have the opinion that they should not charge peak fares for a day with reduced services but to call it a scam is not really being a fair comment. My opinion as stated earlier is that we are lucky we have an substantial lower off peak fare as it does not seem all that common on my travels in other countries. I'm sure it is far easier and cheaper to administer a single fare structure and not have an off peak fare at all. And immediately I kill that point because a saturday service does not include peak fares. So all day off-peak fares during a saturday service is normal. Odd that LU can run Saturday WTTs M-F yet charge weekday fares, yet TFL have suspended congestion charging during this period. Ditto LU's insistence again that Boxing Day is a 'normal' working day for staff. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2011 14:40:11 GMT
Returning to the topic..... How do do reversing arrangements at Baker Street seem to work under the new timetable. There have been examples of Baker Street to Aldgate shutdowns recently for engineering works. Can the 3 platforms cope ok with reversing the service? The 3 platforms cope with no problems at all, whether it's peak or off peak working ;D |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 29, 2011 15:37:38 GMT
I guess there are 16 trains an hour to reverse so that's 5 and a bit tph per platform which isn't too bad at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2011 16:37:09 GMT
I think the solution to the problem of charging peak fares on what is effectively a Saturday service would be to advertise it as a "Special Monday-Friday service running at Saturday times".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2011 20:34:04 GMT
I think the solution to the problem of charging peak fares on what is effectively a Saturday service would be to advertise it as a "Special Monday-Friday service running at Saturday times". Or charge Saturday fares! The argument that there is peak demand is untrue too, the bike shed at chesham is normally full when I arrive, today there were three bikes there. |
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Post by andypurk on Dec 29, 2011 22:32:49 GMT
I think the solution to the problem of charging peak fares on what is effectively a Saturday service would be to advertise it as a "Special Monday-Friday service running at Saturday times". Or charge Saturday fares! The argument that there is peak demand is untrue too, the bike shed at chesham is normally full when I arrive, today there were three bikes there. Of course there is a peak demand, as many more people will be working on these weekdays than on a Saturday. For example, many financial companies in the City will be open for these days. The number of bikes in the bike shed at Chesham won't be very representative of demand for trains, especially for those with other halves who may not be working this week. If there was little peak demand, then I wouldn't expect the National Rail Companies to be running peak extras. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2011 23:02:09 GMT
Or charge Saturday fares! The argument that there is peak demand is untrue too, the bike shed at chesham is normally full when I arrive, today there were three bikes there. Of course there is a peak demand, as many more people will be working on these weekdays than on a Saturday. For example, many financial companies in the City will be open for these days. The number of bikes in the bike shed at Chesham won't be very representative of demand for trains, especially for those with other halves who may not be working this week. If there was little peak demand, then I wouldn't expect the National Rail Companies to be running peak extras. It's not just the bike shed, everything is just far less busy, more like a saturday. For example, on the train I get to work, around 30 people get on at pinner usually, today only 8 got on. |
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Post by mcmaddog on Dec 29, 2011 23:45:36 GMT
It's not just the bike shed, everything is just far less busy, more like a saturday. For example, on the train I get to work, around 30 people get on at pinner usually, today only 8 got on. Since more trains serve Pinner in the off-peak timetable than the peak that's hardly a surprise |
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Post by andypurk on Dec 30, 2011 1:39:23 GMT
It's not just the bike shed, everything is just far less busy, more like a saturday. For example, on the train I get to work, around 30 people get on at pinner usually, today only 8 got on. Since more trains serve Pinner in the off-peak timetable than the peak that's hardly a surprise And since Chiltern are running 4 trains per hour in the peak, it is also not surprising that there may be less passengers on the Met line further north. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 9:19:07 GMT
It's not just the bike shed, everything is just far less busy, more like a saturday. For example, on the train I get to work, around 30 people get on at pinner usually, today only 8 got on. Since more trains serve Pinner in the off-peak timetable than the peak that's hardly a surprise It's the same train I get every day, the 09:55 from Chesham. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 9:45:49 GMT
Since more trains serve Pinner in the off-peak timetable than the peak that's hardly a surprise It's the same train I get every day, the 09:55 from Chesham. And as you will find this morning, contrary to what was published for the week, your train will go to Aldgate today |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 30, 2011 11:21:11 GMT
Yesterday was just like a Saturday - very few office workers to be seen travelling in the peak.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 11:47:55 GMT
Of course there is a peak demand, as many more people will be working on these weekdays than on a Saturday. This morning West Ruislip car park were normally you would be hard pressed to find a place after c0845 was virtually empty just slightly more than on a Saturday morning. I wasn't paying special attention but there seemed to be far less Central line passengers than usual as well. Many of the car parkers use the Central line rather than Chiltern services. There were however a large number of people who had come to see Tornado. Andy |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 30, 2011 12:05:21 GMT
Of course there is a peak demand, as many more people will be working on these weekdays than on a Saturday. This morning West Ruislip car park were normally you would be hard pressed to find a place after c0845 was virtually empty just slightly more than on a Saturday morning. I wasn't paying special attention but there seemed to be far less Central line passengers than usual as well. Many of the car parkers use the Central line rather than Chiltern services. There were however a large number of people who had come to see Tornado. Andy The car park at Chelmsford station was also virtually empty after the am peak when it is normally full. It seems to be that less and less people each year are working on the days between Christmas and New Year. |
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Post by alholmes on Dec 30, 2011 12:23:14 GMT
As one of the (very few) people working in the city this week, my observation is that there seem to be even less people in our office this week than in previous years - at a guess, only 5% of the staff are in. Some people are working from home, but most are taking the time off as holiday.
Clearly if this is typical then there's not really a requirement for anything more than a Saturday service in general. But I don't suppose a Saturday service is very frequent at 7.30 in the morning.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 30, 2011 13:50:13 GMT
As one of the (very few) people working in the city this week, my observation is that there seem to be even less people in our office this week than in previous years - at a guess, only 5% of the staff are in. Some people are working from home, but most are taking the time off as holiday. Clearly if this is typical then there's not really a requirement for anything more than a Saturday service in general. But I don't suppose a Saturday service is very frequent at 7.30 in the morning. Varies from line to line - the Saturday "busy" services tend to wind up from around 9 - 10am. A few years ago, they used to run a Saturday service on these days, but backstart the Saturday busy trains to provide a more frequent service before 9.00am. Clearly now they think that the current Saturday service will suffice from start of traffic, and from reading various comments in this thread, this seems to have been the case. National Rail early Saturday services are probably less frequent than LU, so this maybe why they were running extra trains in some cases. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 14:40:59 GMT
National Rail early Saturday services are probably less frequent than LU, so this maybe why they were running extra trains in some cases. Indeed most, if not all, national rail services operate to their off peak frequencies all day on Saturday, subject to any timetable amendments for engineering work. |
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Post by cooperman on Dec 30, 2011 18:42:36 GMT
I had a little chuckle to my self yesterday . A couple of passengers (Northwood) were moaning about the new T/T. They wished they had the old T/T, Quoting " At least we could get a seat". The only people this T/T benefits, are the people of Wembley. If you live north of Wembley, then your local MP has scored an Own Goal. ;D
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Post by superteacher on Dec 30, 2011 18:45:31 GMT
I had a little chuckle to my self yesterday . A couple of passengers (Northwood) were moaning about the new T/T. They wished they had the old T/T, Quoting " At least we could get a seat". The only people this T/T benefits, are the people of Wembley. If you live north of Wembley, then your local MP has scored an Own Goal. ;D Were these peak or off peak travellers? |
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Post by graeme186 on Dec 30, 2011 20:32:55 GMT
I had a little chuckle to my self yesterday . A couple of passengers (Northwood) were moaning about the new T/T. They wished they had the old T/T, Quoting " At least we could get a seat". The only people this T/T benefits, are the people of Wembley. If you live north of Wembley, then your local MP has scored an Own Goal. ;D I don't think that passengers using Northwood Station have very much to complain about in respect of the new timetable. Frequencies have been increased both during peak and off peak times. |
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Post by cooperman on Dec 31, 2011 18:07:12 GMT
superteacher / graeme186
To be fair, it was the Christmas T/T. Maybe they will feel differently, and embrace the new T/T when it's running properly. I have to say that nobody got on the train at Wembley NB that day ( 1740 pm on the 29th of December) . In time the penny will drop . At least some Commuters have benefited from this T/T . Happy new Year Folks ...... ;D
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Post by bicbasher on Dec 31, 2011 23:03:01 GMT
National Rail early Saturday services are probably less frequent than LU, so this maybe why they were running extra trains in some cases. Indeed most, if not all, national rail services operate to their off peak frequencies all day on Saturday, subject to any timetable amendments for engineering work. On my national rail line to London Bridge, Southern ran ONE additional train in the morning peak, otherwise it was the standard Saturday 4tph service between 28-30th Dec. I was surprised that the one extra unit was in operation considering we share the line with LO which ran the normal 8tph on the ELL. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 12:21:05 GMT
Apparently there is to be a public meeting in Chesham with Angela Back in attendance on Tuesday 10th January at 7.30pm in Chesham Town Hall to discuss the new timetable.
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Jan 3, 2012 13:40:42 GMT
@ metliner
Tell her to bring the fellow Tory MP for Pinner along to the meeting. It would be fun to see them having a row in public.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 16:09:22 GMT
Apparently there is to be a public meeting in Chesham with Angela Back in attendance on Tuesday 10th January at 7.30pm in Chesham Town Hall to discuss the new timetable. It would be better if the Performance Manager Trains for the Met was present, as this timetable is his baby and he thinks there's nothing wrong with it. And maybe the people of Chesham should be questioning why Pinner needs so many trains, and the obvious person to answer that would be the Pinner MP, but he's still probably away on his tax payer funded holiday! ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 17:16:16 GMT
It would be better if the Performance Manager Trains for the Met was present, as this timetable is his baby and he thinks there's nothing wrong with it. And maybe the people of Chesham should be questioning why Pinner needs so many trains, and the obvious person to answer that would be the Pinner MP, but he's still probably away on his tax payer funded holiday! ;D ;D Agreed re: Pinner MP - think we'd all like to meet with him! Maybe Angela Back can bring the Performance Manager Trains along for a friendly word with the locals  He might then like to travel back on an all stations service to see whether he likes it! |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 3, 2012 17:27:18 GMT
What is the PMT Met's history within the company; is his a railway background or admin? Has he been with the company for long (pre company plan, say)? Also, is he an enthusiast?
Pinners MP is Nick Hurd isn't it? Its a bit cynical installing ones son (Douglas Hurd's) in a safe seat for ones party...
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But I'm sorry to hear that you went through a bad personal situation.
and although you are right in principle this one (IOHO) never went far enough to get out the scissors 
. Close call either way 
He might then like to travel back on an all stations service to see whether he likes it!
