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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2011 16:00:43 GMT
Sorry but after travelling on the Met today, this timetable is a joke It would be helpful if, instead of merely stating your opinion, you give the facts of your journey today and maybe an example of your journey last week. As some will know, I can look at actual service data, and can offer truthful explanations as to why your journey may have taken longer. Then we will be able to see if this new timetable is merely a joke in your opinion, or whether there really does need to be a change. I do regularly attend meetings / provide feedback on timetables, and whilst I won't claim to be able to change the world, or provide a personal service within our timetable, sometimes the odd change here and there will be taken on board and implemented if it can be. Im not just talking about my own journey, the point was that everyone (apart from the MP at Pinner!) was happy with the previous service. The phrase 'if it aint broke, dont fix it!' gets thrown around this forum alot. Now, people are unhappy with the new timetable, where compared to the old one everyone was happy. The whole point of the previous fast services was so that destinations such as Amersham or Chesham could get a service that didnt take forever to reach there from London. Yes I know passengers in Epping, Cockfosters etc only get a stopping service, but if the infrastructure is there to run a fast service, it may aswell be used to its full potential. The fact that the new timetable may mean it is easier to get back on track may be true, but services shouldnt be 'expected' to screw up! Dont feel that I am having a go at you personally, I definitely did not mean that!  I was just giving my opinion on this new timetable |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2011 17:28:46 GMT
So the only people that actually benefit are the people on the Harrow to Moor Park stretch whilst the rest of the line loses (apart from Uxbridge branch). Harrow - Northwood (got to be more than one man and his dog surely?) The answer to that is more or less no, off peak it is mostly one man and his dog, and a few oldies going to and from Sainsburys at Pinner. How do I know this? Facts and figures? NO, it's because I'm a regular off peak traveller (due to the start/finish times of my shifts at Baker Street) so I do see how many people are getting on and off these trains. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 13, 2011 17:32:51 GMT
The comment from MetControl about taking away the fast services and Amersham, Chesham passengers etc having to get a slow train like everyone else is plainly laughable. Surely the reason why they had fast services is due to the extra distance to these stations. Just because everyone else has a slow service is not a reason for giving them one. Services should be tailored to meet the needs of passengers, and I believe there is a need for those passengers to have a fast service into town.
If someone told me that my train from Braintree to London would now stop at every station to improve reliabiiity, then I would not be impressed in the slightest.
One thing I don't agree with though is someone suggesting that MetControl doesn't poat anymore. This issue aside, his contributions to this forum are valued and informative and I, for one, would like to see more of it. We cannot always agree on everything, but that is what makes for a healthy debate.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2011 17:39:10 GMT
MetControl, Shedcompnodosh Come on guys, let’s get real now. It is clear that this timetable has been forced on you by LU management and I admire your steadfast support for it; loyalty to one’s organisation is a worthy trait. It is true that my management would have introduced this timetable with or without me, but I and a couple of my colleagues did have an input and certain changes were made which hopefully have improved what may have been. Thing is, disregarding the fact they pay my wages, overall this change is for the better, I have to disagree as a Watford punter. You can't tell me it would be a change for the better if your TOC did this to your train service?? ;D ;D With my boot on the other foot, I do feel you have given everyone on here a very precise and detailed account of what this timetable contains. I believe you and some others did have input, for which I will always be eternally ungrateful, however no matter what you said or done (and as you say) management would still have brought the timetable in. I do think it's very unfair that some individuals, particularly those not in the know or with no railway experience, to have a pop at you when all you are doing is enlightening them of what is happening. I don't like the timetable, I believe I've made that clear on more than one occasion, but some people need to lighten up. If you want to complain about the TT, complain to the line management (or the MP for Pinner) |
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Dec 13, 2011 17:45:50 GMT
Travelled from Chesham to Baker Street today. Having not been sure about this original timetable change, I have to say that its not all that bad. Although the journey time is a little longer, overall I am glad that I don't have to change at Chalfont and Latimer anymore. I was still in time for my train to Bognor Regis so all's well. Also if it does improve relablity at Chesham, then thats even better! The thing I would say though is that the train got very crowded considering it was only 1pm, but then that could have just been a one off |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 13, 2011 17:48:50 GMT
Travelled from Chesham to Baker Street today. Having not been sure about this original timetable change, I have to say that its not all that bad. Although the journey time is a little longer, overall I am glad that I don't have to change at Chalfont and Latimer anymore. I was still in time for my train to Bognor Regis so all's well. Also if it does improve relablity at Chesham, then thats even better! The thing I would say though is that the train got very crowded considering it was only 1pm, but then that could have just been a one off You didn't have to change at Chalfont in the last timetable either! |
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Dec 13, 2011 17:57:52 GMT
I know but I'm just happy I don't have to change anymore. My point is that the timetable is not that bad. Chesham has got a much better service in recent years because we don't have to change anymore and the addition of the stopping service is still better than what we had.
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Post by cooperman on Dec 13, 2011 18:42:54 GMT
Hmmm.... I've seem to upset a few people on here. The point i was trying to make was , being a Moderator you should be Neutral in your views. This can be hard i know!. MetControl please accept my apologies if you thought i was being personal , it's just a very Bitter pill to swallow when you've had such a Great service in the past. As i have said before , you Sir do a sterling job with the tools your given.  I don't agree with you about the North end of the Met . Half an hour slapped on my journey time is not cool, but that's Life...... ;D Best Wishes |
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Dec 13, 2011 21:17:35 GMT
I dont use the Met hardly ever... However, as an observer of this subject over the last few weeks, both before and after this timetable has commenced, it is clear that there is a mixed emotion between those for and against this change. I think those posting here need to understand that MetControl is there to look after the service and do his very best. It is also important to note that, we will always defend subjects or items we love, whether we are blind to the facts or opinions. I think the subject of this timetable has been debated enough, and I believe that people's opinions clearly differ and is causing tension amongst members. Lets all enjoy our love that is the tube, and speak positively as one group Thanks Dom |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 13, 2011 21:26:58 GMT
I dont use the Met hardly ever... However, as an observer of this subject over the last few weeks, both before and after this timetable has commenced, it is clear that there is a mixed emotion between those for and against this change. I think those posting here need to understand that MetControl is there to look after the service and do his very best. It is also important to note that, we will always defend subjects or items we love, whether we are blind to the facts or opinions. I think the subject of this timetable has been debated enough, and I believe that people's opinions clearly differ and is causing tension amongst members. Lets all enjoy our love that is the tube, and speak positively as one group Thanks Dom Fair point, but I think some people remain unconvinced as to the logic behind the new timetable. MetControl will do his usual good job keeping any service as close to time as possible, and nobody on here is criticising his abilities in that area - it's a bloody hard job. Personally, I have seen a lot of changes on the underground over the years, some postitive, some negative. I can even understand that sometimes, it is necessary to sacrifice things to improve other things. But many people on here, despite the arguments put forward, feel that this new timetable is a backward step. Service reliability is a good thing, but not at any cost. |
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Post by jswallow on Dec 13, 2011 22:19:58 GMT
The point i was trying to make was , being a Moderator you should be Neutral in your views. I'll bite, seeing as I completely disagree with that viewpoint. Moderators are chosen who are helpful to a community. They have probably reached that position by being helpful, expressing opinions, and helping others. So, you're saying that someone becomes a moderator and is then instantly muzzled to toe the neutral party line? Sort of defeats why they're there in the first place ... Met Control does a sterling job, patiently replying to people who have little better to do than make the same complaints day after day after day. I understand that people are unhappy about the new timetable or about the new S stock, but do they really have to post about it every single day? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2011 22:37:59 GMT
Back a few pages, it was mentioned that Uxbridge passengers will get a better service -(Only in the Off Peaks)- Peak time passengers have fewer trains per hour. Waiting at my local station halfway on the met Uxb branch line full of passengers waiting at 6.30am on Monday, I struggled to get a seat on the train! With lots of passengers standing up already and it was an A Stock...... One point we are all missing is that reliability factor. With the old timetable, during the Peak time, it was sometimes a slow slog into Finchley Road. It would be interesting to see if you had any facts on improved reliability MetControl Finally, Who would like to bet that when the A stocks have been retired and there is a new timetable with the S Stocks set at normal acceleration (Currently limited to A Stock acceleration). Will the marketing team at LU be ranting on at the huge time savings and increased service compared to the current timetable (Forgetting the previous timetable with quicker trains and higher frequency). I wonder if they have reduced the current service levels now, so it makes these figures look better when the next timetable comes out- maybe next Dec 2012??? Intersting view but wouldn't be true but still.... |
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Post by citysig on Dec 13, 2011 22:48:44 GMT
I thank those above who have realised that all I have been doing over the last weeks/months is playing "ambassador" to the Met Line. Change is never easy and I fully accept that. I never demanded nor wrote this timetable, but decided to give many of you the first glimpse of it long before it was made public. There are a lot of good points (probably yet to be seen to be honest). There are some drawbacks as well. However, the drawbacks always take front of stage, and some of you have been clinging on to those relentlessly for weeks now, without ever really studying the bigger picture - which I am not about to make clearer again. Nobody should be seeing a 30 minute increase to their journey, and I will be looking in to those who claim they do. The timetable itself is one thing, and what I do for a day job is another. It is rare that a timetable is written which actually does not work - this timetable, regardless of service pattern, works. Trains have realistic run time, recovery time, reversal time, and we have several options open to us for service recovery. So as the timetable goes, my job is no more easier nor difficult. And, it has to be said, even though his train service is reduced, neither is LC66's  I have to balance my views on here, and have to balance being a moderator and being a member of LU staff. I won't deny there are decisions my company make which I do not agree with, but as has been in the recent news, it isn't always best to make negative posts surrounding ones employer. However, I respect the fact that much as my immediate management know I post here, they also know I will give an honest opinion - within reason of course. With regard to being a moderator, I was given that position after being here for many years, and having posted in much the same style as I always have. There are staff rules for this forum, and as far as I know I have not broken any - and will hopefully be informed by the forum management if I have. To those who can see what I have tried to do, thank you again. To those who can't, it would be great to know what you do for a living. I have a list of companies I'd love to share my views with, starting with banks, then moving onto to certain supermarkets, then... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2011 22:52:20 GMT
The whole fast vs stopping is something that has happened in recent years on the Ashford - Tonbridge mainline. I think it was in conjunction with the beginning of HS1 domestic services when all Charing Cross services became all stations where as previously there were trains that ran non stop to Tonbridge.
Southeastern are happy and the residents of Pluckley, Headcorn, Staplehurst and Marden are also happy, but those of Ashford and distant Ramsgate? Perhaps not so much.
Of course when you consider that Ashford to London Bridge could be done within the hour, HS1 doesn't look so fast, but I digress...
Does anybody really think (a couple of years later) about the fact that you could get from Ashford to Tonbridge within half an hour when it now takes forty minutes? No. People just use it or opt for HS1 instead.
So all in all while timetable changes may seem inconvenient for some and good for others, most will probably just forget about it and live with it, for better or worse, a couple of months down the line.
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Post by citysig on Dec 13, 2011 23:04:42 GMT
Back a few pages, it was mentioned that Uxbridge passengers will get a better service -(Only in the Off Peaks)- Peak time passengers have fewer trains per hour. Waiting at my local station halfway on the met Uxb branch line full of passengers waiting at 6.30am on Monday, I struggled to get a seat on the train! With lots of passengers standing up already and it was an A Stock...... One point we are all missing is that reliability factor. With the old timetable, during the Peak time, it was sometimes a slow slog into Finchley Road. It would be interesting to see if you had any facts on improved reliability MetControl Unless you have a copy of Working Timetables 329, 330 and 331, you will not be able to see that, although in 329 there were more trains "booked" onto the Uxbridge branch during the peak, and now there are a few less in 331, that measures were taken to reduce the number of trains in 329 (via a temporary service plan) and so as a customer, you never really saw those extra trains. We rarely ran them. And why? Because the Uxbridge branch and the city simply could not accommodate the number of trains we wanted to run without causing delays and subsequent cancellations. The new timetable has a service planned around what can be realistically delivered rather than what we would like to deliver. And that neatly brings us to the point of reliability... Running a service which our (current) signalling system can support is the first step of being more reliable. Then add realistic levels of recovery time to ensure late running is quickly recovered and service intervals are maintained. Then add to this the fact that all trains between Harrow and Moor Park call all stations off-peak means that if a train needs to be diverted via the fast lines to recover time, a gap will not be noticed as much as it was before. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Dec 14, 2011 2:29:02 GMT
Admin Intervention:
Whilst the comments about MetControl being a Moderator and having a potential conflict of interest are noted, they are completely irrelevant as MetControl is not a Moderator on this particular part of the forum. I would point you all to the home page where you'll clearly see that MetControl is in fact a Moderator only within the 'Other London Underground & TfL Railways Matters' category.
Whilst I would accept that all of our Moderators retain the power to intervene across the entire forum, this facility is only used as an absolute last resort.
Now can we please return to the subject matter......
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 14, 2011 7:59:08 GMT
Ok, ....., ........., High Barnet, Cockfosters, Richmond ...... have no choice, . what about New Barnet, and SWT to Waterloo? Practice on main lines is normally to run longer distance services fast from some way out (e.g. Surbiton, Shenfield, Watford Junction), and provide a separate service for the inner suburban stations. This means that incoming outer suburban trains, once they are full, then get as quickly as possible to the terminus, to the mutual advantage of the passengers and the operator (who can get their train back out to collect another lot of commuters), whilst the inner suburban passengers have a dedicated service with a better chance of a seat as they haven't all been taken by long distance passengers from further out. The good people of Pinner may now be finding this out - with all their trains coming from distant Buckinghamshire, they may find they have more trains, but less space. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 14, 2011 8:11:42 GMT
I'm sure that is the case, although this will only be a problem in the peaks.
I actually took the last Amersham home on monday and the whole journey was a crawl. The problem was as this was the last train, it had to be lamped out which added additional minutes to the journey. The Watford train, was right behind us and I would assume was even later running.
It does mean that Nth Harrow-Northwood passengers now have a later last train the Chesham service so they can stay out an extra 13 mins later.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 18:56:59 GMT
I'm sure that is the case, although this will only be a problem in the peaks. I actually took the last Amersham home on monday and the whole journey was a crawl. The problem was as this was the last train, it had to be lamped out which added additional minutes to the journey. The Watford train, was right behind us and I would assume was even later running. It does mean that Nth Harrow-Northwood passengers now have a later last train the Chesham service so they can stay out an extra 13 mins later. The last Chesham is 00:23, ALL stations, arriving Chesham 01:19 - this has been the case for at least the last 2 - 3 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 18:58:15 GMT
A sloppy thing, but some of you here might find this funny: Metropolitan Line in the eyes of the Pinner users group  Poking some fun by charliejohnson19, on Flickr |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 14, 2011 19:06:18 GMT
A sloppy thing, but some of you here might find this funny: Metropolitan Line in the eyes of the Pinner users group Poking some fun by charliejohnson19, on Flickr A levels not keeping you busy enough then! ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 19:11:19 GMT
;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 19:11:47 GMT
Practice on main lines is normally to run longer distance services fast from some way out (e.g. Surbiton, Shenfield, Watford Junction), and provide a separate service for the inner suburban stations. This means that incoming outer suburban trains, once they are full, then get as quickly as possible to the terminus, to the mutual advantage of the passengers and the operator (who can get their train back out to collect another lot of commuters), whilst the inner suburban passengers have a dedicated service with a better chance of a seat as they haven't all been taken by long distance passengers from further out. Unless you use Moor Park, this is exactly what you have now. Chiltern run services fast calling at Harrow then Rickmansworth with the Met providing the inner suburban service. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 14, 2011 19:16:24 GMT
I'm sure that is the case, although this will only be a problem in the peaks. I actually took the last Amersham home on monday and the whole journey was a crawl. The problem was as this was the last train, it had to be lamped out which added additional minutes to the journey. The Watford train, was right behind us and I would assume was even later running. It does mean that Nth Harrow-Northwood passengers now have a later last train the Chesham service so they can stay out an extra 13 mins later. The last Chesham is 00:23, ALL stations, arriving Chesham 01:19 - this has been the case for at least the last 2 - 3 years. No the last Chesham used to be fast. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 20:22:29 GMT
The last Chesham is 00:23, ALL stations, arriving Chesham 01:19 - this has been the case for at least the last 2 - 3 years. No the last Chesham used to be fast. Not in the last timetable it wasn't. Or the few before it! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 14, 2011 21:19:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 21:39:37 GMT
No the last Chesham used to be fast. Not in the last timetable it wasn't. Or the few before it! The last Chesham was fast during the last timetable and the few before it. Arriving Chesham at 0114. My journey home today was an utter joke. Got the 2028 from Wembley to Chesham. I arrived home half an hour later than with the last timetable, yet I paid the same fare. You cannot justify adding half an hour to someone's journey time. No matter what you say about this 'blah blah tfl is a business we need to make money' nonsense, you cannot justify making me pay the same fare to get home half an hour later. If you think you can justify it, please try me. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 14, 2011 21:50:50 GMT
Not in the last timetable it wasn't. Or the few before it! The last Chesham was fast during the last timetable and the few before it. Arriving Chesham at 0114. My journey home today was an utter joke. Got the 2028 from Wembley to Chesham. I arrived home half an hour later than with the last timetable, yet I paid the same fare. You cannot justify adding half an hour to someone's journey time. No matter what you say about this 'blah blah tfl is a business we need to make money' nonsense, you cannot justify making me pay the same fare to get home half an hour later. If you think you can justify it, please try me. It's probably very frustrating stopping at every station, remembering how you used to speed past them. I, like you, have been given the reliability sell. However, it just isn't fair on people like you, regardless of you being a perceived minority. At least Amersham passengers can time their journey to connect with a Chiltern at HOTH. If you go to Chesham, you don't really have that option. Ironically, had they kept the shuttle, you probably would have been better off. Yes, there are through trains to Aldgate from Amersham and Chesham now. But would most people have preferred to keep the fast trains with a change at Baker Street. I assume so. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 22:13:29 GMT
The last Chesham was fast during the last timetable and the few before it. Arriving Chesham at 0114. My journey home today was an utter joke. Got the 2028 from Wembley to Chesham. I arrived home half an hour later than with the last timetable, yet I paid the same fare. You cannot justify adding half an hour to someone's journey time. No matter what you say about this 'blah blah tfl is a business we need to make money' nonsense, you cannot justify making me pay the same fare to get home half an hour later. If you think you can justify it, please try me. It's probably very frustrating stopping at every station, remembering how you used to speed past them. I, like you, have been given the reliability sell. However, it just isn't fair on people like you, regardless of you being a perceived minority. At least Amersham passengers can time their journey to connect with a Chiltern at HOTH. If you go to Chesham, you don't really have that option. Ironically, had they kept the shuttle, you probably would have been better off. Yes, there are through trains to Aldgate from Amersham and Chesham now. But would most people have preferred to keep the fast trains with a change at Baker Street. I assume so. I've certainly never seen the problem in changing at Finchley Road or Baker Street for an Aldgate train. I enjoy the short leg stretch you get from doing that. Obviously it's more convenient, but I'm sure those travelling from Pinner with their unchanged journey times don't appreciate it enough to warrant it. |
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Post by redsetter on Dec 14, 2011 22:21:57 GMT
the problem is people who are the most affected by this have no influence over the mayor,while those that have a more frequent service have.
a number of bad decisions have been made in the past regarding public transport,what happens here is people have to live with the aftermath,and money is ultimately wasted and satisfaction is very low.
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I was just giving my opinion on this new timetable
I don't agree with you about the North end of the Met . Half an hour slapped on my journey time is not cool, but that's Life...... ;D 
