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Post by citysig on Dec 9, 2011 17:37:10 GMT
I guess tomorrow evening's peak will be the last time to experience 'A' Stock passenger trains passing through Wembley Park Pfm 1 non-stop at 50mph. That will be the last "booked" time. Trains may still run fast and non-stop for the requirement of service recovery. Judging by the state of the service at the time of writing, there may be more than one additional "fast through Wembley" this evening. |
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Post by citysig on Dec 9, 2011 17:42:01 GMT
A historic moment! I picked up the 'tube' guide from Northwood an hour ago and have to agree they are very poor in their information. It's almost as if TfL don't want people to know what the changes are - they have to work it out for themselves. Not impressed. All trains stop at Wembley! We'll have the damn Jubilee passengers to put up with! I know you may very well have said it in jest, but from the point of view of these Jubilee customers, the new Met timetable probably saves quite a few of them large chunks of travelling time. There's not that much of the day where we don't currently stop at Wembley. Filling in what is an inconvenient gap in stopping services to a Jubilee or Wembley, will at least please that group of travellers. |
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Post by graeme186 on Dec 9, 2011 22:29:14 GMT
I guess tomorrow evening's peak will be the last time to experience 'A' Stock passenger trains passing through Wembley Park Pfm 1 non-stop at 50mph. That will be the last "booked" time. Trains may still run fast and non-stop for the requirement of service recovery. Judging by the state of the service at the time of writing, there may be more than one additional "fast through Wembley" this evening. You may well have been right but service recovery seemed to be going well. Stopped off at Wembley Park on the way home. Last 'A' Stock non-stopping passenger train was T451, 1756 Baker Street-Watford running 11 down (5076+5118). This was followed by a couple of 'S' Stocks. The final booked non-stopper T411 1802 ex Aldgate like so many trains this evening was ex the depot formed of 21023. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2011 0:39:19 GMT
S**T I should have payed more attention to what exactly the new timetable meant  I never knew the peak fasts would now call at Wembley! I would have taken a break from my bendy bus twilight evening and spent some time wedged (probably) between two people in a bay of 6 on some A stock! |
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Post by citysig on Dec 10, 2011 16:47:49 GMT
You may well have been right but service recovery seemed to be going well. Stopped off at Wembley Park on the way home. Last 'A' Stock non-stopping passenger train was T451, 1756 Baker Street-Watford running 11 down (5076+5118). This was followed by a couple of 'S' Stocks. The final booked non-stopper T411 1802 ex Aldgate like so many trains this evening was ex the depot formed of 21023. There were a couple of other "fasts" (in both directions in fact) between 2100 and midnight. There was also one this morning (Saturday) ;D |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 11, 2011 18:48:07 GMT
Heard at Harrow-of-the-Hill: The heavy sarcasm of the driver announcing on the PA "This is your newly timetabled SLOW service to Chesham calling at ALL STATIONS to Chesham". The S Stock heaters are absolutely useless too, push button doors opening at EVERY station (why?) letting the cold in, long delays before they open at each stop too (again, why?). S Stock 'one size fits all' is clearly totally unsuitable for the north end of the Met. No wonder 8 people at Chorleywood let a SB Met go and preferred to wait for the following Chiltern.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 11, 2011 19:09:05 GMT
Heard at Harrow-of-the-Hill: The heavy sarcasm of the driver announcing on the PA "This is your newly timetabled SLOW service to Chesham calling at ALL STATIONS to Chesham". The S Stock heaters are absolutely useless too, push button doors opening at EVERY station (why?) letting the cold in, long delays before they open at each stop too (again, why?). S Stock 'one size fits all' is clearly totally unsuitable for the north end of the Met. No longer 8 people at Chorleywood let a SB Met go and preferred to wait for the following Chiltern. Wouldn't be so bad if it ran non stop to Moor Park! I can see TFL getting a few complaints about this new timetable. |
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Post by redsetter on Dec 11, 2011 20:21:41 GMT
Heard at Harrow-of-the-Hill: The heavy sarcasm of the driver announcing on the PA "This is your newly timetabled SLOW service to Chesham calling at ALL STATIONS to Chesham". The S Stock heaters are absolutely useless too, push button doors opening at EVERY station (why?) letting the cold in, long delays before they open at each stop too (again, why?). S Stock 'one size fits all' is clearly totally unsuitable for the north end of the Met. No longer 8 people at Chorleywood let a SB Met go and preferred to wait for the following Chiltern. it looks if the A stock still rules the outer met. its also looking similar to the run in from upminster taking c2c and bypassing all the stations on the district line,no one wants the slow boat to china.similarly people will timetable to connect with chiltern for the same reasons'. |
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Post by graeme186 on Dec 11, 2011 21:17:30 GMT
Heard at Harrow-of-the-Hill: The heavy sarcasm of the driver announcing on the PA "This is your newly timetabled SLOW service to Chesham calling at ALL STATIONS to Chesham". The S Stock heaters are absolutely useless too, push button doors opening at EVERY station (why?) letting the cold in, long delays before they open at each stop too (again, why?). S Stock 'one size fits all' is clearly totally unsuitable for the north end of the Met. No longer 8 people at Chorleywood let a SB Met go and preferred to wait for the following Chiltern. I'm afraid I had exactly the same on a SB train which I boarded at Rickmansworth. Passengers were told by the driver that the reason why their train was no longer fast was due to the Northwood and Pinner Transport Users Group and the local MP complaining that their stations were not served by enough trains. Any complaints that they might have concerning their new off-peak and weekend service should be directed to the MP for Northwood & Pinner. |
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Post by metman on Dec 11, 2011 21:51:05 GMT
The driver announced that? Fair play, sounds like the operators will miss their fast runs too!
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Post by 21146 on Dec 11, 2011 22:48:24 GMT
No, I will blame the operator who has just introduced this.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 23:01:32 GMT
Heard at Harrow-of-the-Hill: The heavy sarcasm of the driver announcing on the PA "This is your newly timetabled SLOW service to Chesham calling at ALL STATIONS to Chesham". The S Stock heaters are absolutely useless too, push button doors opening at EVERY station (why?) letting the cold in, long delays before they open at each stop too (again, why?). S Stock 'one size fits all' is clearly totally unsuitable for the north end of the Met. No longer 8 people at Chorleywood let a SB Met go and preferred to wait for the following Chiltern. I'm afraid I had exactly the same on a SB train which I boarded at Rickmansworth. Passengers were told by the driver that the reason why their train was no longer fast was due to the Northwood and Pinner Transport Users Group and the local MP complaining that their stations were not served by enough trains. Any complaints that they might have concerning their new off-peak and weekend service should be directed to the MP for Northwood & Pinner. Can't blame him for telling the truth. Too many people wrapped up in this timetable thinking it's the saviour of the Met line. The only saviour is running faster trains and reducing journey times, not the opposite! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 23:04:47 GMT
Heard at Harrow-of-the-Hill: The heavy sarcasm of the driver announcing on the PA "This is your newly timetabled SLOW service to Chesham calling at ALL STATIONS to Chesham". The S Stock heaters are absolutely useless too, push button doors opening at EVERY station (why?) letting the cold in, long delays before they open at each stop too (again, why?). S Stock 'one size fits all' is clearly totally unsuitable for the north end of the Met. No wonder 8 people at Chorleywood let a SB Met go and preferred to wait for the following Chiltern. The least said about these trains the better. I'm all for progress and new trains, but so far these are proving more unreliable than the A Stock, and that is not a good sign.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 23:09:05 GMT
Why is the 0859 train 404 from Chesham All Stations?
I thought this wasn't meant to affect the peak. That is a peak train.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 23:11:44 GMT
And the 1859 Aldgate to Chesham train, this is also at peak times and if I were to use the service I would have to pay the peak fare!
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Post by metman on Dec 11, 2011 23:18:18 GMT
Because they are right at the end of the rush hour. Now, you know as well as I know, that the 1859 Chesham train will be packed! So why do the fast trains stop running so early? I can't answer that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 23:23:14 GMT
Because whoever designed this timetable doesn't give two bob bits about their 'customers'. They are quite happy to take more money from us, but when it comes to inconveniencing us and forcing us to do as they say and bow down to them, no problem, screw the people who pay their wages and put the food in their mouths!
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Post by cooperman on Dec 12, 2011 10:01:03 GMT
Oh well...
That's over 30 mins slapped on my Journey time home this morning from the good old smoke . Nice of them to push back the departure times of Chesham trains to accommodate an extra Amersham . I suppose that will please some. As predicted no standing room on the Chiltern services.
ETA : Could we now have a Pullman Service, and of course being a Toff it would be nice to have a Shoe Shining Service as well . What... ;D
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Post by redsetter on Dec 12, 2011 10:51:21 GMT
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Post by DrOne on Dec 12, 2011 11:53:40 GMT
Just trying to understand the new service pattern in terms of tph to each terminus. Someone has helpfully posted on wikipedia: The current off-peak service pattern is as follows:
4 trains an hour Uxbridge – Aldgate;
4 trains an hour Uxbridge - Baker Street;
4 trains an hour Watford – Baker Street;
2 trains an hour Amersham – Aldgate;
2 trains an hour Chesham – Baker Street.
Since 11 December 2011 the off-peak service is entirely "all station" stopping trains, and the "fast" trains run only in Monday to Friday peak hours. The service pattern then is more complex, with trains running between Aldgate and all the four northern terminuses. The service pattern is a 32-minute cycle of 14 journeys between: Aldgate and alternately Amersham and Chesham (3), Aldgate and Watford (2), Baker Street and Watford (4), Aldgate and Uxbridge (2), and Baker Street and Uxbridge (3). So if I understand that correctly it gives: Off peak - 16tph Met total composed of 6tph Aldgate, 10tph BS with the service halving at each successive northern branch (8 Uxbridge, 4 Watford, 2 Chesham, 2 Amersham). Peak - 28tph Met total composed of: at the London end: 14tph Aldgate, 14tph BS at the country end: 10tph Uxbridge, 12tph Watford, 3tph Chesham, 3tph Amersham Would anyone be able to give the old (i.e. last week's) service pattern in similar terms so I can understand exactly what has changed (other than the calling pattern). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2011 13:23:09 GMT
Just trying to understand the new service pattern in terms of tph to each terminus. Someone has helpfully posted on wikipedia: The current off-peak service pattern is as follows:
4 trains an hour Uxbridge – Aldgate;
4 trains an hour Uxbridge - Baker Street;
4 trains an hour Watford – Baker Street;
2 trains an hour Amersham – Aldgate;
2 trains an hour Chesham – Baker Street.
Since 11 December 2011 the off-peak service is entirely "all station" stopping trains, and the "fast" trains run only in Monday to Friday peak hours. The service pattern then is more complex, with trains running between Aldgate and all the four northern terminuses. The service pattern is a 32-minute cycle of 14 journeys between: Aldgate and alternately Amersham and Chesham (3), Aldgate and Watford (2), Baker Street and Watford (4), Aldgate and Uxbridge (2), and Baker Street and Uxbridge (3). So if I understand that correctly it gives: Off peak - 16tph Met total composed of 6tph Aldgate, 10tph BS with the service halving at each successive northern branch (8 Uxbridge, 4 Watford, 2 Chesham, 2 Amersham). Peak - 28tph Met total composed of: at the London end: 14tph Aldgate, 14tph BS at the country end: 10tph Uxbridge, 12tph Watford, 3tph Chesham, 3tph Amersham Would anyone be able to give the old (i.e. last week's) service pattern in similar terms so I can understand exactly what has changed (other than the calling pattern). Wikipedia - 'Pinch of Salt' springs to mind A few errors leading to confusion in that entry I'm afraid If you search on here you will find the correct patterns I'm sure Consider 3tph Chesham for instance, how on earth would that work without having a driver in each cab of the train and zero recovery! |
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Post by mcmaddog on Dec 12, 2011 13:55:37 GMT
How come if I look at Moor Park departure boards online right now it shows trains at Platform 1 & 3 northbound? I thought all off-peaks are now slows?
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Post by 21146 on Dec 12, 2011 14:17:24 GMT
How true this reads:
The Management of London Underground are proposing changes to the Metropolitan Line timetable, to take effect from December 2011, that would provide an increase in the number of trains calling at Rickmansworth during the peak hour but a drastically slower service during off peak periods and all day at weekends.
The proposal timetable would mean the following changes for Rickmansworth travellers:
Two additional trains per hour during the peak hours, which would run all stations to Harrow so be semi-fast and take about 40 minutes to Baker Street.
The off-peak service will see a dramatic reduction in quality with no increase in train frequency. The existing two trains an hour from Amersham and two from Chesham will continue but all trains will call at all Metropolitan Line stations to Baker Street. The impact of this change will mean that a journey from Rickmansworth to Baker Street will take about 50 minutes.
The Association is strongly opposed to the proposed change to the off-peak service. The proposal would mean that journeys to Baker Street will take 50 minutes compared with the current off-peak duration of 36 minutes when running non-stop from Moor Park to Harrow and stopping at Wembley Park. This means that anyone planning a trip into London would have to add an extra half-hour's travelling time to their day.
The 2001 Metropolitan Line timetable had off-peak trains taking 30 minutes from Rickmansworth to Baker Street, so the proposed change would mean that in 10 years the journey time will have increased by 66%. In the 1922 timetable journey times varied between 30 minutes and 40 minutes, depending on the time of day and the number of stops, so the service will have deteriorated markedly compared with 90 years ago.
The management of London Underground has obviously decided that the Metropolitan Line timetable should be written for the convenience of staff rather than for the convenience of passengers. This timetable makes a mockery of the government's proposed high-speed railway to Birmingham, as it will take almost as long to travel from Amersham to Baker Street as from Euston to Birmingham; so much for progress. Help us fight this dreadful plan.
Peter Crispin 16 March 2011
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2011 14:49:48 GMT
Some bits may read 'true', but it smacks of Daily Mail sensationalism 50 minutes Ricky to Baker off peak  Nothing like a 25% exaggeration to get the readers going eh? Think it's 39 minutes NB, 40 minutes SB, an increase yes indeed, but poorly researched and way off the mark ! For extra 'half hour' journey time on a round trip, read 11 and a half minutes! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2011 16:38:32 GMT
[quote author=shedcompnodosh board=met thread=18051 post=317576 time=1323701388
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Think it's 39 minutes NB, 40 minutes SB, an increase yes indeed, but poorly researched and way off the mark !
[/quote]
I've just looked at the TfL journey planner for the time from Rickmansworth to Baker Street off-peak. At 11:30 tomorrow the Met line is scheduled to take 43 minutes. Curiously, it would take only 41 minutes if I change to the Jubilee at Finchley Road. Can anyone explain why a Metropolotan line train takes two minutes longer than a Jubilee line train when the latter has two intermediate stops?
It might be even quicker if I change to the Jubilee line at Wembley Park!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2011 16:55:28 GMT
[quote author=shedcompnodosh board=met thread=18051 post=317576 time=1323701388 Think it's 39 minutes NB, 40 minutes SB, an increase yes indeed, but poorly researched and way off the mark ! I've just looked at the TfL journey planner for the time from Rickmansworth to Baker Street off-peak. At 11:30 tomorrow the Met line is scheduled to take 43 minutes. Curiously, it would take only 41 minutes if I change to the Jubilee at Finchley Road. Can anyone explain why a Metropolotan line train takes two minutes longer than a Jubilee line train when the latter has two intermediate stops? It might be even quicker if I change to the Jubilee line at Wembley Park! Have double checked and can assure you that the 39 / 40 minutes I quote are the off peak standard run times Never used TFL journey planner in my life and having put your request in, can't say it inspires me to use it again It appears journey planner is taking the Baker St departure time for your train and using this as the journey time! Your 11.30 ex RKY has 3.5 minutes dwell time at Baker St, hence your 43 min quote As for the Jubilee question in terms of journey time being quicker despite 2 stops, it is by 1/4 of a minute on the base journey times This is (I imagine) due to newer rolling stock with superior acceleration/braking and also a better infrastructure in terms of the track condition and speeds Remember downstairs on the Jub you scream into Baker St as it is a through station Upstairs on the Met it is either Bay paltform or Junction so a much slower approach where a lot of time is lost in comparison |
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Dec 12, 2011 17:00:29 GMT
Don't forget the 55 mph line speed (last time I checked/could have been increased) on the Jubilee, 5mph faster than the Met currently is.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 12, 2011 20:12:44 GMT
Can anyone see a U turn when the next timetable comes out? I've yet to hear of a good reason for abolishing the off peak fast services.
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Post by citysig on Dec 12, 2011 20:32:44 GMT
And the 1859 Aldgate to Chesham train, this is also at peak times and if I were to use the service I would have to pay the peak fare! Simple answer? Because they are, that's how the timetable has been written. Longer answer? Both trains are at what is considered the tail end of the peaks. Fast numerous fast services are booked ahead of these trains. The evening peak also has 3 more fasts after the train you mention - including one to Chesham (1932 ex-Aldgate - this runs 10 minutes earlier than your old 465 that you always seemed loyal to.) |
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Post by citysig on Dec 12, 2011 20:36:33 GMT
Can anyone see a U turn when the next timetable comes out? I've yet to hear of a good reason for abolishing the off peak fast services. The way it has worked thus far? No. A customer from Epping, Upminster, Edgware, High Barnet, Richmond, Cockfosters, Wimbledon, Ealing, Uxbridge, Morden (have I missed any, oh well) has always had no choice but to board all-stations services. Why are Met customers in 2011 so different? |
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I never knew the peak fasts would now call at Wembley! 
